High Nalograd #fundie

High Nalograd #fundie forum.nationstates.net

Recently we have seen numerous cases of mass murder committed throughout the United States.
Some leftists have claimed that guns are the culprit. However this is obviously not the case, because murder exists even in nations with strict gun control and all gun control does is make the government all powerful and not answerable to rebellion.
Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny.

Intelligent design should be taught in the place of evolution in our public school system. Church attendance should become mandatory and abortion and homosexuality should be illegal.

This will do far more to combat social violence then an assault weapons ban ever would.

55 comments

old comment by xyz

> Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny.
Canadian here, and you are full of bullshit. We can still own guns. It's just a pain in the ass if you're a criminal (even then, I think criminals can still get certain guns).

> Thus I think the real issue is related to faith.
Sweden and Japan just called, they're doing just fine.

> If we want to reduce violence in this country we need to purge the Atheist elements that promote slaughter and supremacy of the strong as the natural course of evolution.
So to reduce violence, you're going to get rid of the most peaceful members of society?

> Intelligent design should be taught in the place of evolution in our public school system.
No. Children have a right to a decent education.

> Church attendance should become mandatory and abortion and homosexuality should be illegal.
Keep your goddamned religion and religious laws to yourself.

old comment by UHM

image

Christianity/Religion - gun law - homicide rate:
Japan: 2% / 67% non-religious - All firearms banned, carry permit only in very few cases - 0.4
South Korea: 29.2% / 46.5% n-r - All firearms banned for civilian use - 2.6
Iceland: 38% theist (~80% Church of Iceland) / ~11% n-r or unspecified * - guns are heavily regulated - 0.3
Israel: 2.1% / 3.9% unclassified by choice - guns are heavily regulated - 2.1
Australia: 61.1% / 22.3% no religion - guns are heavily regulated - 1.0
...
Belgium: 49% / 31% n-r* - guns are regulated - 1.7*
Switzerland: 69.7% / 20.1% no religion - universal conscription, guns are required for all able bodies - otherwise highly regulated - 0.7*
Turkey: 0.13% / 3% atheist - highly restrictive laws on gun ownership - 3.3
Chile: 78% / 19% atheist - regulated - 3.2
US: 73% / 16.1% no religion - weak regulation - 4.8

It seems like there's no connection between Christianity and low rates of gun related homicides - at least not a positive one. What is visible is a clear connection between gun control and gun violence - which makes sense since if you don't have a gun you can't hurt anyone with it!

*Country is European, statistics on religion are seperated by belief and membership in a Church.
** This country has a small population and therefor a small sample size.

old comment by

"Recently we have seen numerous cases of mass murder committed throughout the United States.
Some leftists have claimed that guns are the culprit. However this is obviously not the case, because murder exists even in nations with strict gun control and all gun control does is make the government all powerful and not answerable to rebellion.
Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny."

Okay, you have a point there.

"Thus I think the real issue is related to faith. Godlessness has taken root in Christian America and has spread like a curse. If we want to reduce violence in this country we need to purge the Atheist elements that promote slaughter and supremacy of the strong as the natural course of evolution. "

...And that's where you lost me. It's not atheism that's the problem, it's the culture of violence.

"Intelligent design should be taught in the place of evolution in our public school system. Church attendance should become mandatory and abortion and homosexuality should be illegal."

Isn't that the type of tyranny people would want to overthrow?
...Oh wait, it follows "traditional values", so it can't be oppressive!

"This will do far more to combat social violence then an assault weapons ban ever would."

No, it wouldn't. In fact, I'm pretty sure it would incite MORE violence. Ever hear of the Stonewall Riots? Or the murders committed by people pretending to be back-alley abortion doctors? Or the countless religious wars?

old comment by Horsefeathers

"However this is obviously not the case, because murder exists even in nations with strict gun control and all gun control does is make the government all powerful and not answerable to rebellion."

Uh huh.

I suppose you think your pea-shooter is somehow supposed to intimidate the Federal Government who owns and commands things like tanks, bombers, and professional soldiers with gear and training worth several hundred thousand dollars or more, right?

"Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny."

There's no longer any need for you to be armed in order to keep the government in check. Your belief that you could revolt against the government like they did in the Revolution is an illusion. Even if everyone was armed with several assault rifles apiece and thousands of rounds of ammunition, a single tank is all it would take to put down your little "rebellion". Hell, they wouldn't even need that. A simple drone strike would do it.

You're delusional, as you've already shown with your previous statements. This one just makes the case stronger.

"Intelligent design should be taught in the place of evolution in our public school system. Church attendance should become mandatory and abortion and homosexuality should be illegal."

Insane and delusional, apparently.

"This will do far more to combat social violence then an assault weapons ban ever would."

I'd rather have weapons of war purged from the hands of civilians. You know, like all of the rest of the civilized countries of the world have done.

old comment by

You dont have a "right" to rebel against the government of the USA. Its a crime called treason or maybe sedition.

If you try and succeed then you can all say "gee that actually worked" and move on. If you try and fail you will be dead or in prison.

I would not bet on an uprising of patriots with guns overthrowing a government.

Intelligent design reduces to GODDIDIT and is not science.

My Church is the Church of casual Intercourse (CCI) and services are held Saturday night and Sunday mornings with a willing partner. Will that do or does it need to be a specific church ?

Criminalize abortion just pushes the cost up and will never stop it.
How do you police Buttsexx(tm) between consenting adults in their own homes ?

old comment by Wehpudicabok

Murder exists in nations with strict gun control, yes - but at significantly lower rates. Take Japan, for example - extremely tight gun regulations AND much less religious than the US. By your logic, it must be much more dangerous to live there, right? Not true - in Japan the annual murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants is 0.4; in the US, it's 4.8. (Source.) Given that you Republicans seem to have serious problems with basic arithmetic, I'll spell it out for you: living in the United States means you're 12 times more likely to be murdered than living in Japan. Godlessness doesn't harm anyone.

Oh, and by the way, I don't think anyone out there is saying guns are the culprit, but rather that if we reduced their accessibility, murder rates would go down. People like Lanza and Holmes would probably still try to kill - and we still need to address the issues that create these killers in the first place - but if they didn't have such powerful guns, they wouldn't be able to kill in the large numbers that they did.

Oh, and try saying the same thing about Jews that you say about atheists. See how that sounds.

old comment by GigaGuess

Recently we have seen numerous cases of mass murder committed throughout the United States.
Some leftists have claimed that guns are the culprit. However this is obviously not the case, because murder exists even in nations with strict gun control...
In FAR less amounts, but sure, we still have murder. That like saying "Throw out condoms because there's still a %0.001 chance of failure.

...and all gun control does is make the government all powerful and not answerable to rebellion.
You make it sound like you have a chance in the first place. The Second amendment was made in the infancy of America, where it would have been much, MUCH easier for someone to just wrest control, or for Britain to have tried to come for another crack at it. In the modern, CIVILIZED world, such a thing is archaic, unnecessary and bordering on barbaric. Things like assault rifles are not needed. Not to mention, I seem to recall back in the Dubya days, the moment one of us dared to question one of his many, MANY debacles, we were called traitors and many of your ilk were baying for us to be dragged out back and shot as enemies of the state. Yet you claim the need to hold the ability to commit treason sacrosanct? Interesting.

Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny.
I repeat, like you'd have a chance in the first place.

Thus I think the real issue is related to faith. Godlessness has taken root in Christian America and has spread like a curse. If we want to reduce violence in this country we need to purge the Atheist elements that promote slaughter and supremacy of the strong as the natural course of evolution.
Wow....yeah these people kill because they think that man evolved rather than being whooshed in from a pile of dirt, and his honeybuns made from his rib. Yeah, take that away and we'd be all kumbaiyah and stuff. It has NOTHING to do with emotionally unstable people having near unfettered access to firearms.

Intelligent design should be taught in the place of evolution in our public school system. Church attendance should become mandatory and abortion and homosexuality should be illegal.
And this would make people less violent. Gotcha.

This will do far more to combat social violence then an assault weapons ban ever would
Yup, making the country a theocracy would rid the country of violence. I mean look at the Dark Ages in Europe. That's TOTALLY the solution as opposed to getting people the mental health assistance they so desperately require, or at least making it more difficult for them to get access to weapons DESIGNED TO TAKE OUT MANY PEOPLE IN SHORT ORDER.

old comment by BugsyPal

Of course there is murder in countries with strict gun control. The obvious point is that there is almost invariably much less than in the United States.

Good luck with any rebellion you might stage - no matter how well armed and well trained you might think you are, it's nothing compared with what the government could potentially muster.

And you think it's all due to atheism and its supposed promotion of violence (however you came to that conclusion)? By that logic, the United States, probably the most overtly religious nation in the Western world, should report a significantly lower number of murders than the others.

And finally we get your real agenda, namely forced religious observance. Do you not realise that if religious freedom is denied to others, it can just as readily be denied to you?

old comment by LDM

"Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny."

Romania 1989, anyone? And what tyranny? Ever since we flipped the King of England the collective big bird, the closest we've ever come to a tyrant was your precious George W. Bush. Even then, many of us openly and freely called him a chip-faced douchebag on a daily basis, and no one ever came and got us in the middle of the night for it.

"Thus I think the real issue is related to faith. Godlessness has taken root in Christian America and has spread like a curse."

Then explain why there are so few, if ever, any mass shootings in Sweden or Japan. And why could I find no history of school shootings in what was then the Soviet Union?

"If we want to reduce violence in this country we need to purge the Atheist elements that promote slaughter and supremacy of the strong as the natural course of evolution."

Atheists aren't the ones screaming "Don't take away my guns!!"

"Intelligent design should be taught in the place of evolution in our public school system. Church attendance should become mandatory and abortion and homosexuality should be illegal."

Yes, because heaven forbid if we even look at that Second Amendment the wrong way, but that First Amendment sure is dispensable according to you morons. And p.s., I've done the "mandatory church attendance" thing (thanks to my parents), all it did was make me resentful of religion and never want to set foot in another church again once I was free to do as I pleased.

"This will do far more to combat social violence then an assault weapons ban ever would."

Yes, mandatory religion sure did wonders for combating violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Like make it worse.

old comment by farpadokly

"Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny". We've heard this argument a lot in the last 6 months or so. It's bullshit.
How does it make sense to take up arms against the United States government in the name of the United States constitution, whose embodiment the government is?
If you did that, they would simply crush you, physically eliminate you, and call you terrorists. It would be like Waco, the Black Panthers, the American Indian Movement, the Weather Underground, and every other armed group that went up against the government in American history, all the way back to the Whiskey Rebellion in 1791.
The 2nd amendment says you have the right to bear arms, and calls for a "well-regulated militia". It doesn't say you have the right to engage in guerilla warfare against the state. And even if you have high-powered assault rifles, the government and the military has tanks and bombs and planes and the latest hi-tech equipment because its incredibly well funded. It's nothing but a fantasy to think that you can challenge them with a few rifles.

old comment by Canadiest

"Alencon

But nations without guns have LESS murder you fucking moron."

Nations with a per capita equal gun ownership also have much lower gun deaths than America. Guns designed specifically to kill people are banned or limited in some cases but all gun owners know they can kill with any gun.

Those arguing that rapid fire high clip count gun bans would make no difference for this reason, it is true you could kill twenty people with two handguns, so they have a point. But this much higher rate of killing in America goes deeper.

I'll just say it: America is a gun-worshipping culture and this has led to a paranoic arms race between it's own citizens. Many Americans are scared that so many have guns so they need guns and they need a bigger faster gun than their neighbors, that and a large part of the American phyche believes might equals right.

So, even if these guns become limited I think we'd still see a way above average amount of slaughters in America then elsewhere.

old comment by Atheissimo

The 'guns to defeat a corrupt government' barely even worked back in 1776 when there wasn't all that much difference between an enlisted soldier and a farm boy with a musket. The majority of the fighting was still done in pitched battles between regular soldiers and the ordinary colonists with guns actually lost more battles than they won.

Fast forward to the present day, the difference between your average civillian and an enlisted soldier is staggering both in terms of training and equipment, which is both financially and legally outside what most people could hope to own.

That's assuming they don't have access to the vast amount of high-tech vehicles, aircraft, missiles and drones that would be brought to bear on your weekend rebellion.

old comment by Hasan Prishtina

murder exists even in nations with strict gun control

Murder is, as the gun lobby point out, universal. However, having the means to ensure you kill rather than injure and kill as many as possible, you need a firearm. Slate.com tells us that, as of now, 734 people in the US have died as a result of firearms since Sandy Hook. The corresponding number in the UK, I have been told is 3. Taking into account that Britain is much smaller than the US, this still leaves you about 49 times more likely to have died as a result of gunfire in the States as the UK. And the overall murder rate isn't much to shout about either.

Gun control takes away our right to rebellion against a tyranny.

The government has an even better right to put you to death for treason and taking up arms against it.

Thus I think the real issue is related to faith. Godlessness has taken root in Christian America and has spread like a curse. If we want to reduce violence in this country...

Well, among the countries with the highest overall homicide rates in the world are Malawi, Uganda, Guatemala, El Salvador, Zambia, Venezuela and Jamaica. All of them are remarkable for the religiosity of their populations. Among the least religious peoples of the world are those of Hong Kong, Norway, Denmark, Japan, Germany, Australia and New Zealand, who also happen to have some of the world's lowest homicide rates.

This will do far more to combat social violence then an assault weapons ban ever would.

Except the evidence seems to point the other way about.

old comment by gravematter

"we need to purge the Atheist elements that promote slaughter and supremacy of the strong as the natural course of evolution. You're confusing "Social Darwinism" with evolution. Also, atheism has nothing to do with evolution. Most atheists accept evolution because they don't let belief in an old book get in the way of the facts.
"Intelligent design should be taught in the place of evolution in our public school system."
There is nothing to teach in ID. There's no mechanism proposed and no facts. But again, evolution has nothing to do with atheists, and nothing to do with gun control.
"Church attendance should become mandatory"
Ever glanced at your constitution?

High Nalograd #fundie forum.nationstates.net

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