mb #fundie

mb #fundie forums.dragonmount.com

Supporting points for my position (Personal God):
-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.
-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before.
-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.

56 comments

old comment by Tiberius Thyben

Supporting points for my position (Zeus):
-Zeus(and Heracles) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.
-Those who have accepted Zeus have had radical changes from what they were before.
-Without Zeus, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.

Supporting points for my position (Cthulhu):
-Cthulhu of the Necronomicon (and The Old Ones) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.
-Those who have accepted Cthulhu have had radical changes from what they were before.
-Without Cthulhu of the Necronomicon, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.

Supporting points for my position (Flying Spaghetti Monster):
-The Flying Spaghetti Monster of the RAmen (and his noodly appendage) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.
-Those who have accepted The Flying Spaghetti Monster have had radical changes from what they were before.
-Without The Flying Spaghetti Monster of the RAmen, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.

old comment by GreasetrapTheViking

"The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible"

i can make up a being that is beyond comprehension right now. in fact, i can name a ton of books that involve characters that are beyond human comprehension. they are usually described along the lines of 'they work in mysterious ways'

"Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before."

so have those who have accepted alcohol

"Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish"

oh, you just solved one of the biggest ongoing philosophical debates about human nature did you? have you published your reasoning yet?

old comment by Doctor Whom

-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.

Ditto with the Invisible Pink Unicorn. It's beyond human comprehension that She can be both invisible and pink. Just like your God, She is such total bullshit that She must exist.

-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before.

It's the conversion experience, not the religion. Otherwise, explain how the same thing can happen to converts to Islam.

-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.

It's also impossible with the God of the Bible.

old comment by WMDKitty

-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up.

Except that he was, clearly, made up.

Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.

Um, no. You see, there's this thing called the 'imagination', and a genre called 'fantasy'....

-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before.

So do those who shoot up heroin, or smoke crack. Wonder what that says about your 'Jesus'.

-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.

And that's simply not true. Oh, sure human nature is certainly selfish, but that doesn't mean humans aren't capable of selfless acts. No 'god' required.

old comment by BobsOldSocks

"-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension"

Actually, no. The god of the bible is pretty easy to comprehend - a bullying, murdering, terrorising, torturing sociopath with all the impulse control of a five year-old full of sugar and "E" numbers.

"so he could not have been made up."

Bullshit. Every god that's ever been written about is all too human in their behaviour. That's how we know they're fictional.

"Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible. "

You're really reaching, ain't ya?

"-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before. "

Oh, absolutely! From rational, intelligent human beings to brain-dead, drooling morons. What a terrible fate!

"-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish."

Speak for yourself, pal! You might be a selfish prick but altruism is inherent in human societies and pre-dates religion, civilisation even. Selfless behaviour is seen in monkeys; it's nothing special and neither are we.

old comment by

-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.

Not so. It's perfectly possible to make something up and claim that it has powers or properties that are "beyond human comprehension." In fact, I'm pretty sure that Lovecraft invented several such monsters. Are you saying that his monsters must exist?

-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before.

This suggests that following your religion has significant effects on one's life (whether good or bad, you don't say...), but not that your religion is true. Especially because you could say this about any other religion.

-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.

Well I don't know anyone who is totally selfless anyway, so I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove.

old comment by Papabear

"-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible."

How convenient. How 'bout two-sided triangles? Beyond comprehension so I couldn't have made them up, therefore, they must exist.

"-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before."

All major delusions do that. If I start believing that I am the emperor of the world, I will manifest radical changes.

"-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish."

There have been many selfless atheists and many selfish Christians, God or no God.

old comment by GigaGuess

Supporting points for my position (Personal God):
-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.
"If I don't understand it, God did it. God loves me, but if he makes my life miserable, it's so I appreciate his unconditional love all the more. And anything I don't like, God will punish...eventually. But I only don't like it because God doesn't." Seems fairly easy to comprehend to me. However, I will admit the "Jesus is God...and yet a man...but still God...who was fathered by God...who sacrificed himself to himself to absolve humanity of sin...yet it didn't quite seem to take since Hell still exists..." is still pretty fuzzy, however that's more inconsistency, and less incomprehensible. And finally, how can this be said about God, and not...say...unicorns or dragons or centaurs?

-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before.
They PROFESS radical changes. Some may experience it, but it's more likely because they WANT to experience it. Those who don't want to change themselves will not experience it. It's almost like the change actually comes from within, ain't it?

-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.
And in this case, the only reason for the selflessness is to gain brownie points from the big man. Not to mention, complete selfishness is considered rather anahemic to social animals, which we are. So while we may be selfish to a degree, we will almost ALWAYS have some selflessness innately, if just for self preservation.

old comment by Fompili

Supporting points for my position (Tasty Tasty Cheese Exists):
-The perfect cheese (and flavour) is beyond human comprehension; so it could not have been made up. Thus if it did not exist, any thought about it would not have been possible.
-Those who have bought the tasty tasty cheese have had radical changes from what they were before (i.e., some money is missing from their purses).
-Without the tasty tasty cheese, total succulence would not have been likely since human nature is selfish (i.e., nobody likes sharing their tasty tasty cheese).

That makes only a tiny bit more sense than what you wrote. But hey, it made me think about cheese, instead of religious morons. :-)

old comment by Anon-e-moose

Awwww, how cute. A fundie trying to rationalise himself out of the corner he's painted himself with pseudo-philosophy.

Here's my version - and it's not pretty, mb:

If your 'God' can supposedly do something as hyper-complex as magic an entire universe, world & all the life on it, but can't do something as relatively easy as piss as actually appear to everyone in the world, in physical form now, then that puts his supposed 'omnipotence' under question. And if he can't appear to us, then he's not omnipotent, thus he's not God. Therefore he's an inferior being not even worthy of belief, nor faith in such or even acknowledgement of his existence. After all, if he wants us to acknowledge he exists, all he has to do is appear to us. Now. But since he can;t, ergo he doesn't exist. QED, bitch.

After all, have you actually met this 'God' of yours - personally?

In summation: 'Personal God' = Delusion. "The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension" = rationalising the fact that a 'God' doesn't exist, using cultic self-hypnotic suggestion (whereas critical thinking destroys such). 'Faith' = Delusion.

mb = Deluded.

"Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish."

There were soldiers/sailors/airmen in WWII who are/were Atheists. They fought to destroy the evil that was Nazism, to ensure you have the freedom & way of life you enjoy (and by saying what you did, clearly take for granted) today. Some died in the process of ensuring the world is the (mostly) peaceful and democratic one it is.

The mere fact you say that "human nature is selfish" makes your very existence an insult to their bravery, memory - and selflessness.

old comment by shockmeshockmeshockmewiththatdeviantbehavior

Supporting points for my position (Personal God):

SO... OK WHO APPOINTED YOU AS GOD? AND A PERSONAL ONE AT THAT? XD

-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.

THUS, YOU ARE A FUCKING HYPOCRIT TO TELL ALL OF US THAT NO MORTAL HUMAN BEING CAN COMPREHEND HIM OR HOW HE WORKS.... BUT YET ALL OF YOU CHRISTIANS CONSTANTLY FEEL THE NEED TO TELL US HOW TO LIVE OUR LIVES AND WHAT GOD WANTS FROM US BY CITING THE BIBLE ALL THE TIME (WHICH WAS WRITTEN BY... *ZING!* HUMANS!). HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?..... HUMAN??

-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before.

IF BY RADICAL CHANGES YOU MEAN, CLEANING UP ONES ACT, PROGRESSING FORWARD IN LIFE, LEARNING TO LOVE AND NOT HATE, TAKING RESPONSIBILIES FOR ONES OWN ACTIONS...
THEN ID SAY YOURE PRETTY FUCKED ON THIS ONE CUZ THERE ARE PLENTY CHRISTIANS LIKE YOU THAT I KNOW THAT HAVENT DONE ANY OF THIS SHIT THAT ARE "SAVED" BY CHRIST LEGITIMITLY THROUGH FOLLOWING YOUR BIBLE AND CONTINUE THEIR WICKED LIVES. AND HERE I AM... "UNSAVED" BY YOUR DEFINITION, BUT YET I HAVE OVERCOME MANY STRUGGLES AND HARDSHIPS IN MY LIFE MAKING RADICAL CHANGES TO DO ALL OF THE ABOVE IN THIS AND MORE, INCLUDING OVERCOMING RAPE, MOLESTATION, BEING HOMELESS, STARVING, BEING BEATEN HALF TO DEATH, GOING THROUGH CHILD ABUSE, AND ACTUALLY FORCING MYSELF TO WORK HARD THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL SO I COULD GRADUATE. AND YOUR GOD... WASNT! INVOLVED! ONE BIT! NOT EVEN CHRIST!

-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.

HUMAN NATURE IS SELFISH. BUT ITS PART OF BEING HUMAN. AND ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE, GOD MADE HUMANS. SO GUESS HE MADE US SELFISH IN NATURE. IF THIS IS THE CASE... WHY DOES HE DEMAND SELFLESSNESS?? CON...TRA....DICT...IONS! I HATE THEM! XD

old comment by GigaGuess

-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up. Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.
A wise man, transcending those he walked among, purity incarnate. No matter what was said to him, he had a witty retort, or a sage parable to counter it. Buddy, Jesus is proof that Mary Sue has been around since the Bronze age. To imagine a perfect character is, if anything, proof of a hack writer.

-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before.
And many people are healed by a simple sugar pill. If people believe something enough, it will have an effect.

-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.
Total selflessness? You people crow that the only reason you don't go on murder-rape-arson-jaywalking sprees is because you want to go to Heaven. The only reason you give to charity is to make good with God and Jesus. Not exactly selfless, is it?

old comment by what???

Your first point fails, because at least half the shit I read on paranormal websites is beyond human comprehension. Also, one can think of elves, fairies, sprites, dragons, the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot, doesn't mean they exist simply because we can conceive of them. But you have two points on that first one, and they contradict each other. Good job.
Your second point can be applied to other religious conversions as well. I felt the same way, and had similar changes, when I converted to Buddhism. So, no points there.
This one is the easiest to defeat. Buddhism, again, has it's fair share of those who are completely selfless, moreso than xtianity. And Buddhism isn't the only religion to have this. So, you fail.

“Supporting points for my position (Personal God):
-The God of the Bible (and Jesus) is beyond human comprehension; so he could not have been made up.”
Total bullshit. Cthulhu is beyond human comprehension and several people made him up.

"Thus if He did not exist, any thought about Him would not have been possible.”
As above, humans can invent all sorts of bullshit.

“-Those who have accepted Jesus have had radical changes from what they were before.”
Along with those that survive cancer, or those that have a near-death experience, or those that go Vegan, or those that marry, or those that join the military, or those that become Jewish, Mormon, Catholic, Buddhist… Or the Libertarian who did molly and realized other people feel pain.
Human change does not require a god. Otherwise those radical changes would ONLY occur in one religion at most.

“-Without the God of the Bible, total selflessness would not have been likely since human nature is selfish.”
Exactly how many examples of TOTAL SELFLESSNESS can you come up with? I mean, a sacrifice made where they get nothing out of it INCLUDING a boost to their ego?

And the ‘selfish’ trait is actually to the gene pool, which is why individuals will sacrifice themselves for their young, or for the herd, and no god is required.

And for other deities?

mb #fundie forums.dragonmount.com

56 comments

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