There are a lot of arguments against the existence of God (and heaven and hell) but what about Unseen Forces of Evil,wether you call them Satan or some other name.
1)Theres plenty of evil,death,disease and disaster in the world - a good argument,
2)No scientific evidence? - well why would forces of evil want to leave evidence? It's perfectly logical that they would want to cover up their activities.
3)Their motives? - power perhaps or sadism.
4)Religions that believe in Satan also believe in lots of things that are,according to modern
The theory of evolution and the big bang do nothing to disprove the existence of 'forces
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I just want to address MY HERO’s first point. Yes, I admit there is a lot of evil in the world: genocide, war for profit, discrimination, etc. all of which are man-made. On the other hand, death, natural disasters and the like are not in any way shape or form evil. Naturally occurring events are not evil!
Gentlemen, why does Pickering's Moon go about in reverse orbit? Gentlemen, there are nipples on your chests; do you give milk? And what, pray tell, Gentlemen, is to be done about Heisenberg's Law? Somebody had to put all this confusion here!
1)Theres plenty of evil,death,disease and disaster in the world - a good argument, for some people, against the existence of god but not against the existence of evil forces.Death is a natural occurence. Everything that is alive can and most likely will eventually die. Disease is a function of life. Life is not perfect and disease is a natural phenomenon. Natural disasters are a function of the physical make-up of this world. They are also a natural phenomenon that can be explained and often predicted.
2)No scientific evidence? - well why would forces of evil want to leave evidence? It's perfectly logical that they would want to cover up their activities.
Like Mike said, Occam's Razor disagrees.
3)Their motives? - power perhaps or sadism.
Again, where is your evidence for the actual "forces of evil" and the evidence that supports the said forces' motives?
4)Religions that believe in Satan also believe in lots of things that are,according to modern science,illogical or unproven - Wouldn't that make them a great tool for 'forces of evil',use religious fanaticism and fear to do your dirty work for you on one hand and make yourself seem so absurd to atheists and scientists (a possible threat?) that they don't believe in you and they convince everyone else not to believe in you.
This sounds asinine.
The theory of evolution and the big bang do nothing to disprove the existence of 'forces of evil' since any such force would be destroyers/corruptors/manipulators rather than creators."
Yes, its true. The theory of evolution and the big bang do nothing to disprove the existence of 'forces of evil'. Why? Because the big bang theory is concerned with cosmology and evolution is concerned with biology. Your rant is concerned with superstition and general bullshit. Have a nice day.
Well, which force of evil makes sense, since those phenomena have always been there, and the people damaged are, more often than not, innocent whatsoever of their destiny?(in the Tsunami, for example).I understand that people are tempted to think so, but I don´t agree.
Yeah, that's right, ultimate evil has to hide itself, just like ultimate good!
didn't Sherlock Holmes say something along the lines of "sometimes if you can't see any evidence, it's not because it's well hidden, it's because it's not there". Well, maybe he should have.
Just what is this nutjob saying? It seems to me that he is arguing against god but for a producer of evil. Yes, there is evil, but that just comes from the minds of evil people. Unseen "forces", whether good or evil, are also products of the human mind.
"There are a lot of arguments against the existence of God (and heaven and hell) but what about Unseen Forces of Evil,wether you call them Satan or some other name."Most of those agruments against the existence of God apply equally to Satan, "Unseen Forces of Evil" and/or demons.
"1)Theres plenty of evil,death,disease and disaster in the world - a good argument,
for some people, against the existence of god but not against the existence of evil forces."
Perhaps you should start by showing that "evil" exists. If it does, you'll need to show that "evil" doesn't originate in each human being without any outside influence.
"2)No scientific evidence? - well why would forces of evil want to leave evidence? It's perfectly logical that they would want to cover up their activities."
Indeed, IF there were such "Unseen Forces of Evil" they might wish to cover their tracks, but you haven't shown that such forces exist.
"3)Their motives? - power perhaps or sadism."
Uh huh, but that is all just wild speculation until you start showing that such "Unseen Forces of Evil" actually exist.
"4)Religions that believe in Satan also believe in lots of things that are,according to modern
science,illogical or unproven - Wouldn't that make them a great tool for 'forces of evil',use
religious fanaticism and fear to do your dirty
work for you on one hand and make yourself seem
so absurd to atheists and scientists (a possible threat?) that they don't believe in you
and they convince everyone else not to believe in you."
Uh huh, but that is all just wild speculation until you start showing that such "Unseen Forces of Evil" actually exist.
You start from a premise you can't even begin to show is true. That is not the basis on which to found an agrument.
"The theory of evolution and the big bang do nothing to disprove the existence of 'forces
of evil' since any such force would be destroyers/corruptors/manipulators rather than creators."
The ToE and the Big Bang Theory do not have anything to do with evil or "Unseen Forces of Evil" or Satan or demons or destroyers/corruptors/manipulators, much in that same way Revelation does nothing to disprove the existence of Betty Crocker.
So, the reason there is a god, is because there's a bunch of evil demons that keep on covering up their existence. Are these 'demons' really Cthulhu? In that case, all hail the Dread Master of Humanity!
There are a lot of arguments against the existence of God (and heaven and hell)... ...but what about Unseen Forces of Evil,wether you call them Satan or some other name.
The Unseen Forces of Evil are hanging out with the Vacant Clown of Pratfalls, enjoying the Experienced Smoke of Buckets on the Corpulent Plains of Yesterday.
Can you demonstrate the existence of "unseen forces of evil?" If you can, I'll listen with all attention. If not, then shut up.
Still, I like the idea. The Unseen Forces of Evil.
The (Noun) (Adjective) of (Noun). It's like Mad Libs!
1)Theres plenty of evil,death,disease and disaster in the world - a good argument,
for some people, against the existence of god but not against the existence of evil forces.
It's an argument, specifically, against a good and omnipotent god. If your god is not omnipotent, he's immune to that argument, since he is presumably unable to stop suffering. If your god is both good and omnipotent, however, he can't exist; the suffering in the world disproves the existence of a god who is both able and willing to stop suffering.
The presence of suffering can be used as an argument in favor of evil forces, but it's not nearly strong enough to protect the evil forces hypothesis from the deadly slice of Occam's Razor.
2)No scientific evidence? - well why would forces of evil want to leave evidence? It's perfectly logical that they would want to cover up their activities.
Yeah, yeah, and the god ate your homework. I need evidence, right here, in front of me, not a pathetic excuse as to why you don't have any.
The current evidence and information we have available (namely, our observations of the universe and the results of science) is consistent with the following two hypotheses:
1. The universe.
2. The universe AND evil forces.
However, simple logic will tell you that the former is more likely. (Here is a truth table for and explanation of a conjunction, in case you're stuck.) As such, without further evidence, we should choose the first of those two.
This principle is called Occam's Razor.
3)Their motives? - power perhaps or sadism.
This is mere speculation about the motives of a group of beings whose existence has not yet been established.
4)Religions that believe in Satan also believe in lots of things that are,according to modern
science,illogical or unproven...
Um, yeah. The one religion that believes in Satan (Christianity) certainly does promote a lot of falsified and illogical beliefs!
...Wouldn't that make them a great tool for 'forces of evil'...
OK, now you're speculating about the methods of a group of individuals whose existence has not yet been established.
Do us all a favor and show us that the "evil forces" exist before you start worrying about their motives or methods.
...use religious fanaticism and fear to do your dirty work for you on one hand...
Wow. Just wow. Let's recap here.
You said that the religion who believes in Satan hold ridiculous beliefs and would be a great tool for the forces of evil because their religious fanaticism and fear does their dirty work for them.
Well, Mr. Hero, you belong to the only religion that believes in Satan, you hold many beliefs that are clearly absurd, and your religion is certainly filled with fearmongers and fanatics.
*BOOM!*
Oh, no need to worry. That's just my irony meter.
...and make yourself seem so absurd to atheists and scientists...
Yep. You're certainly pretty damn absurd.
...(a possible threat?)...
Oh, you bet we're a threat! We'll happily debunk your beliefs any day and send you crying back to a protected forum where ideas aren't questioned.
...that they don't believe in you...
Sadly, there is overwhelming evidence that you exist. As such, we have to believe in you, although we certainly think your beliefs about evil unseenities are bullshit and will happily debunk them.
...and they convince everyone else not to believe in you.
Meh, everyone who knows you believes you exist. We'll certainly try to prevent people from falling victim to your beliefs , though.
The theory of evolution and the big bang do nothing to disprove the existence of 'forces
of evil'...
Nor do they do anything to disprove the existence of fairies, elves, flying spaghetti monsters, dragons, pixies, fairy dragons, china teapots orbitting the sun between Jupiter and Saturn, transvestite dragons, Frodo Baggins, campy dragons, khani, the Úbe people, campy transvestite fairy dragons, Blaga, the Order of Kysine, or campy but straight dragon-like fairies.
...since any such force would be destroyers/corruptors/manipulators rather than creators.
They would be destroyers, not creators? What does that matter? They're still expected to leave evidence!
There is no "good" and "evil," though we tend to classify actions in that sort of black and white. Reality is grey. Good and evil are simply choices/possibilities. One's decision to do "good" or "evil" is grounded in the individuals upbringing as well as their biochemical construct. There are narcisists and sociopaths who could easily do "evil" if they lack the empathy and upbringing to guide them away from those choices. Blaming some unseen force is a cop out that shifts blame off the guilty party.
Death is a necessity. It is neither good nor evil.
Disaster -- shit happens. Earthquakes tsunamis and are caused by plate tetonics; tornadoes, hurricanes, and typhoons are caused by weather systems; etc. etc.
Disease -- Bacteria and viruses have no conscience, only their biological predispositon for reproduction/survival.
"Wouldn't that make them a great tool for 'forces of evil',use
While there are plenty of terrible things in the world, it could be a whole lot worse, and "forces of evil" have had numerous opportunities to fuck the ENTIRE WORLD over AT ONCE. Cuban Missile Crisis, anyone?
In short, no, you lose.
'Your honour, MY HERO!! killed this man and he needs to put locked up for life. Okay so I know there's no evidence, I know there's not even a body but just think about it ... if you killed someone, wouldn't you try and make it look like you hadn't ?? Wouldn't you cover it up and hide all the evidence ??'
'My God he's right. Lock that man up !!'
Theory: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
YOU DO NOT HAVE A THEORY. STOP SAYING THINGS.
what you call Satan seems to be doing Gods work. He politely asked God if he could torment Job, God said Go right ahead, perhaps kill his kids and wife.
Why would an angel we rebelled against God torment anyone who does not believe in God ? It only makes sense if Satan is trying to save Christians from an evil God. If that is true hell would be really nice.
It is only if Satan is Gods hitman that hell would be Gods creation for the torment of Gods enemies.
Who is the bad guy again ?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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