Many find it hard to understand why I would vote on only one issue-Pro-Life. Because of complications in her pregnancy, I watched my daughter-in-law give birth to her child at only 22 weeks into the pregnancy. The sweet baby lived 45 minutes and then left our world. She had a perfect little body. How can anyone abort these little miracles? John McCain [...] needs to appoint supreme court justices who will rid America of this violent, horrific crime to the unborn!
56 comments
Great, instead of aborting the baby you made the baby suffer for 45 minutes and caused alot of trama to your daughter.
[How can anyone abort these little miracles?]
So...your god let the 'miracle' die?
What a dick.
Ever wonder how your daughter feels having to go through losing her child (an actual baby, since it was actually born) and then you turn around and tell her it was your gods gift to her and she should be thankful?
You, too, are a bitch.
"The sweet baby lived 45 minutes and then left our world."
Because they were going to live in pain under fundie parents and die in less than an hour anyway?
Ok, that was kinda harsh. But you wanted to know why.
So, as a one-issue voter, you would vote for a candidate advocating nuclear war, mass-suicide, child-rape and execution of Christians as long as the candidate was "pro-life?"
Complications, you say? That might mean that it was question of whose life needed to be saved - a 22 week fetus or your daughter-in-law.
It's obvious what your choice would have been, you cold-hearted freak!
Your son and his wife ever speak to you again?
And if your daughter in law had aborted that obviously defective fetus when it was in it's early stages, she could have gotten pregnant again, and had a nice healthy full term birth.
But no, you prefer to have her emotionally and physically traumatised to give birth to something that wasn't meant to live.
THERE IS NOTHING (CLEARLY) RELIGIOUS ABOUT THIS QUOTE! NOT FUNDIE!
He may have interpreted what was clearly a very tragic event in a strange way but there isn't one direct reference to religion here. I have no idea why he would base his whole vote on this one event, barely related to abortion but once again, there is no mention of religion so I'd say you're projecting something onto him that may or may not be there.
And you know what, shame on some of you in these comments. "Cletus the fetus?" That's pretty fucking low brow given that these sort of things really happen and that it can really mess up someone's life.
And some of you are making judgements about this scenario based entirely on guesswork. He never said what the complications were for one thing- I wouldn't judge him or his daughter-in-law to be somehow horrible without more information.
How do you know that this man and his daughter-in-law didn't care very much for that baby and assume that it would make it through 9 months Ok and continue on with the pregnancy with that assumption? Once again, we don't know the medical details.
Honestly, I feel like I can't judge this guy. I've never been in his shoes. I've never looked at what would of been my granddaughter alive and then seen her die in front of me.
How many of you have?
@C2 - absolutely agreed. Look at what they did here: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?q=45845 - the guy is clearly a Hindu in India, and they blame the quote on Christians and Americans.
I wish the people here would stop giving atheists a bad name! Those idiots are making the rest of us look stupid, so quit it!
This story is sad, but not relevant. Abortions are not done at 22 weeks. There could be an induced miscarriage, which is only be done in extreme circumstances. There is a huge difference between week 12 and week 22 in terms of development.
@ C2:
A person doesn't have to be religious to be fundie. How many fucking times does that have to be said on this board?
Also, no matter what Susan's been through, wanting to deny all women the ability to control their own bodies makes her a jackass about that issue. How many women have been raped? It's horrific, but it still wouldn't give them the right to deny men basic human rights. "I've been traumatized!" is not a free pass when it comes to human rights and bodily autonomy.
@ Alena:
When I first became an atheist, I initially stayed pro-life for a while. I ended up changing my position and being pro-choice, but I'd hardly say it's "fundie" to take the pro-life position- it just reflects a different understanding of the world. You use the idea of human rights to support your view but so do pro-lifers- it's a completely subjective concept. What's a "human right" in one person's eyes, isn't in anothers and I reject that concept in favor of arguments of philosophy which I don't want to get into here. Being that I don't disagree with you otherwise it would be kind of pointless.
And I am well aware that fundies don't have to be religious- I was responding more to some of the comments here that assumed the person was religious or a hick. As far as if she is a fundie- I'd really have to hear more of her reasoning on the issue than this one paragraph. Perhaps, perhaps not- though the logic isn't shining in this quote, I'll happily admit. I don't think it's right to label someone a "fundie" just because they take a position that doesn't fit your worldview- I'd say their rationale is key. Otherwise, everyone would be a fundie to someone.
@ Bobington:
That's kind of an absurd claim. Plenty of people call their babies "little miracles" including atheists. In fact, I'd say that as an atheist, a baby is more of a miracle to me that it probably is to a religious person- here is a life, that once didn't exist, that's here for it's own sake, is it's own "higher purpose" (versuses a "higher purpose" serving the will of some deity), and is about to get to drink deeply of life's cup. I don't see what isn't a miracle about that.
@C2
I'm sorry but a child being born only to die 45 minutes later is not a miracle.
This is still fundie, I don't see how you can be pro-life after seeing your God fail to save this baby.
Sad as your story is, and with the greatest respect to your daughter, she technically had an abortion. The question, however, is this: Who caused it?
In your terms it can only have been god. Moreover, there are thousands of unviable pregnancies every day that are aborted,, not in any clinic, but spontaneously - presumably, again, by god. But I doubt that you will see that.
No. I am not pro-abortion. I would generally be against it especially as a matter of convenience, such as getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy - there is such a thing as contraception. But I can conceive (no pun) of situations where ethically it would be permissible and justified - even morally necessary, however regrettable. And nature itself gives the lead on this, as in the sad case of your daughter, who I hope will be able to put her loss behind her and in time bring a healthy child to full term and safe birth.
Great, because you saw fit to let your daughter and grandchild suffer, you want every fertile woman in America to breed, breed, breed more unwanted fetuses because they're leetle cheeeldrun and are more important than the lives, rights and wants of women. It doesn't matter what you do with your life, or what you achieve, if you're a woman and fertile society attaches your whole worth to what you do (or rather don't do) with your body. Even to the point of debating if you should have the right to own it. It's sickening.
Another thing that's annoying is people calling their babies "little miracles", even when they didn't get here through any hardship. A baby is not a miracle, it wasn't brought here by magic. It's a human being that was brought here by biology. It's not a flippin' miracle, can we stop treating breeding like it's something demi-gods do, kthnxbai.
The sweet baby lived 45 minutes and then left our world. She had a perfect little body.
'perfect' might kinda conflict with the fact that she lived for only 45 minutes, eh?
@C2 well said. There are a lot of jaded people here. Also, a lot I would imagine have never created a child. I haven't, but I don't simply dismiss a person's experience (or their son's wife's experience) of giving birth as so inconsequential as to make no impact on the person's worldview.
A tale of two fetuses:
1) My cousin Erin became pregnant, but the fetus was horrifically malformed. As in, the organs were all outside its body. It made Erin really sick and the baby was obviously not going to live very long. Yet Erin insisted on bearing it full term. It nearly killed her and the baby lived about fifteen minutes, in horrific pain every minute of its short life, before dying. That's not a miracle, that's fucking CRUEL. Cruel to the mother and cruel to the fetus that is hardly alive, and will not live more than half an hour.
2) My mother had the same issue. Four years before I was born, she got pregnant. She wanted a baby. But the fetus was malformed and made her sick. She didn't want it THAT fucking bad. So she aborted it (and had one ovary snipped off). Two years later, she had my brother with no real complications; two years after that, she had me (I had a big head, but otherwise, no complications). She aborted one horribly malformed fetus that was making her seriously ill so that she could bring two healthy ones into the world later. That's far less cruel; my mother is still alive and healthy today, as are my brother and I, and we are all healthy and happy. Fetus X was aborted so that my mother could live, and that was fair, because the world got two cooler, healthier kids out of it.
In my book this becomes fundie the moment she says she's voting strictly one-issue, regardless of ANYTHING else.
And also, to Xotan, contraception fails. Even sterilised people occasionally manage to impregnate or become pregnant. So people who are adamant enough about avoiding pregnancy to go for a permanent, surgical solution should be forced to go through with the pregnancy should that solution fail? Nice one.
MilkyWay says:
In my book this becomes fundie the moment she says she's voting strictly one-issue, regardless of ANYTHING else.
Yep. Susan may not be a religious fundamentalist, as C2 has tried to point out, but she is certainly a "Pro-Life" fundamentalist, to the point that she is willing to ignore all other issues in a national election. In my book, if you're willing to cast aside the issues that have actual relevance to the day-to-day operations of our country (economy, education, etc.) in favor of a single argument based on gray morality, you're some kind of fundie.
Please note, C2, that this website is not just about born-again Christian fundamentalists. Although posts from those people make up the vast majority of what we see here, we have also witnessed Muslim fundamentalists, atheist fundamentalists (for lack of a better term), and political fundamentalists like Susan here.
Furthermore, not everyone here is an atheist. While many of us are, there are also quite a few moderate and level-headed religious posters who like to join us in this examination of the extremists.
I can understand how Susan feels the way she does considering the tragedy her family experienced. What I cannot understand are the incredibly tasteless, hate-filled comments I have read by the posters here. I'm not a Christian but after reading some of these remarks I can understand why they feel the way they do about atheism and abortion.
Several people have said that Susan somehow let her daughter and grandchild suffer...how? Is there any indication that she somehow prevented her daughter-in-law from having an abortion? Has it occurred to anyone that the daughter-in-law WANTED to try to carry the pregnancy to term, and that is her right just as much as it is her right to have an abortion if she chooses?
I'm just pretty disgusted by some of these responses. At the very least they are incredibly childish and immature.
Although I can sympathize with family's suffering, I do not understand Susan's analogy here. So if God decides to effectively abort a 22 week old fetus outside the womb causing immense heartache and expense to the family, it's a glorious little miracle, but if the mother decides, it's a horrible sin? Sorry but I do not respect one issue voters of either flavor(or GOPFOXNEWS watchers either for that matter) anyway. They tend to have no respect for those who disagree.
I actually know of someone who decided not to abort when the doctors told her that her baby would be born horribly deformed. She wasn't supposed to have children anyway, so she birthed a "child" that had no brain, no nose, no eyes and lived long enough to scream.
I rate a person like her as the lowest scum on the earth. Having an abortion would spare the baby--and everyone else--from such a terrible thing.
Well uh . . . why was the baby born that early, anyway?
@Neserit
That's uh . . . fucking horrible and that woman is a terrible person.
"And also, to Xotan, contraception fails. Even sterilised people occasionally manage to impregnate or become pregnant. So people who are adamant enough about avoiding pregnancy to go for a permanent, surgical solution should be forced to go through with the pregnancy should that solution fail? Nice one. "
@ Milky Way
I haven't a clue what you are talking about. Frankly, it appears neither do you.
ATHIEST FIGHT! lol
Personally, I can see the humanity in the fetus, but I believe that a woman's right to choose when she gives birth trumps that.
Basically, the rights of one already alive has greater precedence than one not-yet-alive.
EDIT: And I also believe way too many of the comments on FSTDT are truly hateful, even when someone has gone though a tragedy like this. I fully support throwing a big 'fuck you' in the face of the true asshats, but sometimes I think we forget that these fudies, as ignorant as they are, are human beings too.
@Xotan
Well perhaps I should've provided context.
"I would generally be against it especially as a matter of convenience, such as getting rid of an unwanted pregnancy - there is such a thing as contraception."
And yes, I do have a pretty good idea about what I'm talking about, being one of those people who'd get labelled as having an abortion out of "convenience" should my contraception ever fail.
*attempting a conversational tone*
Not too many things push my buttons, but this is one that does. And I do admit to having knee-jerk reactions to it. Sorry about those.
@G Zimmer: I agree that fundies are people too, I can understand why people on these boards get so angry with them. I'm received all sorts of hateful, horrible comments from fundies (I'm infertile myself and have been told I might as well be dead). When you receive nothing but shit from these people you tend to lash out occasionally. At least on these boards we can vent our frustration and anger without the fundie even knowing about it.
As for dear Susan and her daughter in law: Susan is an asshat for voting solely on one issue, her daughter in law may or may not be an asshat (depends on whether she knew her "perfect little miracle" was a dud or not.
I am more surprised that these nutcases think there will be no abortions if abortion is outlawed. That is so crazy/
Abortions were and will be if it becomes illegal, done in backrooms under unsanitary conditions by quacks often resulting in life long complications for the woman. All you want to do, is to move abortions from a safe environment and back into the back alleys.
Reality is a bitch sometimes and most of the time, reality disagrees with your little religious fantasy.
I would vote on only one issue
Then you shouldn't vote if you're going to be that single-minded about it.
Look, I'm not fond of abortion either, but to think that it will be stopped by legislation is wishful thinking at its worst. Outlawing abortion will only drive it underground where it will become an even worse problem. The only way it will be reduced is by stronger sex education, access to birth control and changing people's attitudes.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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