Ken Ham, AIG #fundie

Ken Ham, AIG #fundie answersingenesis.org

Q-If God created the world 6,000 years ago or so, why are stars millions of light years away?

A-Brendon, what a question! Yes, we know from the dates God gives us in the Bible that He did create the whole universe about 6,000 years ago. When we hear the term light-year, we need to realize it is not a measure of time but a measure of distance, telling us how far away something is. Distant stars and galaxies might be millions of light-years away, but that doesn’t mean that it took millions of years for the light to get here, it just means it is really far away!

181 comments

old comment by Creedence Leonore Gielgud

What he's probably trying to say, but is too stupid to convey properly, is that light speed is not constant, and has slowed down over time. This may very well be true, and it is an area of interest for physicists. They have found no compelling evidence to support that this is the case though.

However if it had of fluctuated drastically enough to allow light to travel across billions of light years, in just a few days, then we wouldn't be here discussing it right now. The accelerated rate of radioactive decay during the time of the alleged creation week would have at best rendered the earth uninhabitable, and more likely burnt it up completely.

Ham could just have said God created the Universe to appear ancient, as some creationists claim. This is problematic too. Probably more so, because in that scenario God is deliberately being deceptive, and punishing humans for buying into the illusions he himself created to trick us with.

old comment by Brent

@nutcase: Intuitively, it seems like a good question. But the problem is that the distance and time are inseperable. That much is obvious from the fact that the distance is defined by the time it takes for light to get from the distant star to the us. If the universe popped into being 6000 years ago, for instance, the light from stars 6000 ly away would just now be arriving--we would see it as stars magically popping into being. Any stars closer would have been visible for some time, and farther away stars would still be invisible. The only way we would be able to see stars farther away than 6,000 ly, in that case, would be for light to have been created enroute.

But, it's Ken Ham, so logic doesn't apply, and a trickester god who makes the universe seem older than it is (a test of faith?) is a perfectly viable explanation for facts that don't support his beliefs.

old comment by David F Mayer

Concerning THIS message:

Professor M

Distant stars and galaxies might be millions of light-years away, but that doesn’t mean that it took millions of years for the light to get here,

Yes, it does. A light year is a measure of distance, sure: it's the distance that light travels in a year. So if a star is X light years from Earth, it takes exactly X years for the light to get here. This shouldn't be difficult to understand.

10/20/2010 10:57:03 AM

No, Professor, it IS difficult for the scientifically illiterate to understand. When a person's conception of reality is based on the kind of science in comic books and fairy tales, it is EXTREMELY difficult for the person to understand a scientific explanation.

old comment by dionysus

Okay, since nobody else has done it yet I'll address one common creationist rebuttal: that light was faster in the past. Even if we ignore the fact that they have absolutely no evidence of this claim, it is still impossible and the consequences are incredible. As we all know from grade school physics (and from hearing it just about everywhere else) E=MC^2. But what does that mean? It means that energy is mass times the speed of light squared. Normally, since c is a constant, the application of this is that the more mass we have the more energy can be derived from that mass. However, creationists have gone and turned c into a variable and just like increasing mass increases energy, increasing the speed of light also increases energy, however, since c is squared, it increases the energy at a MUCH higher rate, which means that things like the Sun would get an enormous boost in the energy produced from their mass. To get light to a speed where it can travel several billion light years in 6000 years that would require an increase in energy that would make the Sun melt PLUTO and turn the Earth into rock vapor. I hope god gave Adam sunscreen, cause he sure as hell needed it!

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"Q-If God created the world 6,000 years ago or so, why are stars millions of light years away?

I heard on BBC Radio 5 last night (prior to the regular weekly 1 hour phone-in science Q&A with the 'Aussie Brainiac' Dr. Karl*, which I never miss) that the oldest galaxy had been discovered - formed just 600 million years after the Big Bang:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE69J4K120101020

...you were saying, Ken? PROTIP: The expansion of the universe isn't just continuing to this day (some 13-14 billion years after said Big Bang), but is accelerating.

I love the smell of destroyed arguments in the morning. Smells like... victory.

*- Dr. Karl, whom I refer to as the 'Aussie Brainiac', and populariser of science in all it's myriad & wonderful forms):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Kruszelnicki

http://www.drkarl.com/home/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/drkarl

old comment by The L

Um, no, Ken, it means both. Because, see, a light-year is the distance that light travels in one year. So if a star is 25 light-years away, that means both that it is trillions of miles away from us, and that the light we see from that star tonight started off on its journey 25 years ago.

No amount of double-think will change that fact.

BTW, guys, the AiG guys generally believe and promote that the speed of light has decreased over time. Thus, even though certain stars are millions of lightyears away, it still only took their light 6,000 years to get here. Because light has gotten slower.

Naturally, there is no evidence of such a thing even being possible, much less actually happening in our universe. (How would you measure such a thing if it happened, anyway?) This is especially mind-boggling when you consider that light moves so incredibly fast that it took until the 17th century or so for people to realize it does, in fact, move.

old comment by Anon

>>The L:

The AiG guys generally believe and promote that the speed of light has decreased over time. Naturally, there is no evidence of such a thing even being possible, much less actually happening in our universe. (How would you measure such a thing if it happened, anyway?) <<

This idea has been tested, not by checking the speed of light directly, but by checking the nuclear fine-structure constant, which is related to the speed of light and determines how nuclear fusion works in stars. For the last ten billion years, fine-structure constant and the speed of light have not changed by more than a part in a million.

So, there goes that idea. Eventually, their claims will either contradict reality or become Last Thursdayism.

old comment by xyz

> When we hear the term light-year, we need to realize it is not a measure of time but a measure of distance, telling us how far away something is.
Exactly. Now let us consult the dictionary to see just how long a light-year is:
"A unit of length (abbreviation ly; equal to just under 10 trillion kilometres (10¹⁶ metres)) equal to the distance light travels in one year; used to measure extremely large distances."

As you can see, that renders this statement:
> Distant stars and galaxies might be millions of light-years away, but that doesn’t mean that it took millions of years for the light to get here, it just means it is really far away!
Invalid. Millions of light-years means it takes millions of years for light to travel that distance.

Unless, of course, God was feeling deceitful and put that light there to fool scientists into thinking that the universe is 14 billion years old.

old comment by Haylale1

In Genesis 1:2 the Hebrew word "???????" is in the 'past tense' and is demonstrative.
So the verse properly translated, word for word, Hebrew to English:

And the land she had become (demonstratively) empty (lacking substance/its salt for example) and void (lacking direction/purpose) and darkness upon the face of the [water making noise] (a consistent reference of people wondering aimless in life) and Spirit (singular) of Eloheem/Gods (plural) fluttered upon the face of the waters (referring to the above 'water making noiese' as in there were many of these).

So if one actually went through the maturity process in scripture and became 'spiritually minded' as Romans 8:1-15 describes, you would be able to see that 'The Land' is described in a past tense. So Genesis chapter one does not do anything other than describe a very large cyclical action. Who cares how old the world is? People who don't want to mature in a spiritual sense. They don't want to believe their understanding is at best enough to preserve them for just a flicker of time.

Ken Ham, AIG #fundie answersingenesis.org

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