Treubig #fundie

Treubig #fundie dailypaul.com

Currently, hourly employees receive time and a half after 40 hours of work each week. Salary employees do not get overtime for working over 40 hours each week. Is this fair? Now look at it this way, an employer is paying an employee for a service. The employer is being punished for trying to increase their profits to pay their employees more money. This is also punishing the employees from working more hours if they choose.

The common argument is that the employer will force the employee to work tons of hours against their will or they lose their jobs. Well, why aren't salary employees protesting for overtime? What about commission employees? Commission employees could work regular time for no pay. Why aren't the commission employees protesting?

What is so special about an hourly wage? Who was the genius that came to the conclusion that 40 hours is regular time? Why not 30 hours or 50 hours? Why is overtime time and a half? Why not time and a quarter or time and three quarters?

Just like minimum wage, an overtime law is a violation of an individuals pursuit of happiness. Now, I cannot freely negotiate an hourly wage and amount of hours to work with an employer or employee without the government being the third party in the negotiation telling us what we can and cannot agree on. If I want to work 50 hours a week for $5.00 per hour, I should be free to do so without the government telling me by law I am not allowed to work.

Shouldn't government get out of our personal and business lives because they are not smart enough to regulate anything for all individuals?

35 comments

old comment by LDM

You want to go back to 18 hour work days, 6 days a week in a sweat shop for barely enough money to buy dinner, let alone pay rent and utilities? Be my guest, and I'm sure any employer will gladly pay you $5 and hour, more for the rest of us.

And btw, salaried employees usually get a pretty stiff annual bonus, based on their performance, and the sky's the limit on what a commissioned employee can earned. An hourly employee typically gets only a small bonus, if they get one at all. It differs from place to place, but this has been my experience from 30 years in the workforce. And most people, employers and wage-slaves alike, act like overtime is a treat. "You're doing such a great job, so your reward is-more work!" Yeah, gee, thanks.

old comment by Canadiest

Salaried workers usually bargain their hours, if not the first contract then certainly the next. Unless the employer states say, a sixty hour week the employee is within his rights to not work that many.

By labour laws in Ontario, you can refuse excess of twelve hours a day, not that most employed are ever told that to the benefit of those employers that have no problem working people to death. Workers rights should be taught in high school, guess who's keeping people ignorant of such laws?

"Who was the genius that came to the conclusion that 40 hours is regular time?" This was actually determined at least by the fifties, along with lunch and break times, everything after 8 hours is at lesser quality and unsafe. The 11th hour accident is a real obvious statistic and the trend towards more injury begins in the 9th.

Then there's a little thing called a life, and leisure time which you and too many think only the rich have a right to. I'm in the service industry and have met far too many rich folk who are adamant that the working class are not entitled to any holidays, cottagers, you don't work long hours if you have time for a cottage.

And in case someone tries the "they work smarter, not longer" I can guarantee most them are inheritors.

old comment by dionysus

The common argument is that the employer will force the employee to work tons of hours against their will or they lose their jobs.

That's actually true. When I worked hourly I didn't work NEARLY as many hour as when I worked salary. Luckily I now work for myself and even though I put in more hours than either I get to control (somewhat) how much I make.

Well, why aren't salary employees protesting for overtime?

Because the situation isn't bad enough that they feel the need to protest. Keep in mind that people worked in industrial era factories for decades before they finally protested the horrible conditions there. What makes you think that someone as comparatively comfortable as a salaried employee would protest?

Commission employees could work regular time for no pay. Why aren't the commission employees protesting?

You're missing the other part of the equation. Sure, there's a chance commission employees could make nothing, but they can also make more than they've ever seen in their lives. That's the risk they signed up for.

What is so special about an hourly wage? Who was the genius that came to the conclusion that 40 hours is regular time? Why not 30 hours or 50 hours? Why is overtime time and a half? Why not time and a quarter or time and three quarters?

If regular time was 50 hours you'd be asking "Why can't it be 60?". If overtime was time and a quarter you'd be asking why it isn't time and an eighth. They had to put the limit SOMEWHERE. Otherwise it's not really a standard.

old comment by Kuno

The common argument is that the employer will force the employee to work tons of hours against their will or they lose their jobs.

History shows us that exactly that will happen without regulations. Do you really want to go back to the times of robber barons? Of people having to work 12 hours or more on 6 days a week?

Well, why aren't salary employees protesting for overtime?

I don’t know how it is regulated in the USA, but here you normally have some kind of time account and you can take the hours you worked overtime as leisure time at a later date (with varying details, but that’s the general idea). If there isn’t such a regulation, they should protest.

What is so special about an hourly wage? Who was the genius that came to the conclusion that 40 hours is regular time? Why not 30 hours or 50 hours?

8 hours work per day leaves you with 8 hours for sleeping and another 8 hours leisure time/time to get to your job. 8 times 5 working days per week leaves you with 40 hours. Also, companies that work 24 hours/day can fit 3 shifts in one day. (As a side note: Many companies here in Germany do no longer have the 40 hours week, but considerably less so. I think the new standard is 38.5 hours.)

Why is overtime time and a half? Why not time and a quarter or time and three quarters?

Because it’s easier to calculate? Because you have to set some rule?

Also, if I had to guess, I would say that it is between employer and employee to agree to an higher overtime pay than time and a half. The idea is to set a minimum requirement to avoid exploitation, with the option of negotiating better conditions.

old comment by farpadokly

Geezer does not know the first thing about economics.

These things came about because of generations of organisation and agitation by workers and unions.

"an overtime law is a violation of an individuals pursuit of happiness". Meaning, the happiness of the employer. But what about the worker's pursuit of happiness? Is that not violated by him being exploited?

There is legislation about work to prevent a thing called EXPLOITATION. To prevent things like child labour, sweatshops, abuse at work, and factory buildings falling onto worker's heads. When one party to a contract has more power than another, that party will use that power to its own advantage.
Exploitation is a bad thing and an unfair thing.

What sane person, if they had the choice, would choose to work long hours for a low wage?
What would really happen in that scenario is that employers would pay their workers AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE, and you'd work AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

"But you could just go and work for another boss". No, he'd be compelled to pay AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE as well, or he'd go out of business.

"Shouldn't government get out of our personal lives?" Yes, UNLESS we're doing harm to each other, unless we're enslaving each other or economically exploiting each other.

The government in this case is US.

old comment by Pule Thamex

#1604952
Happy Misanthrope

Yes, I understand you're happy in your misanthropy and therefore find it fundamentally difficult relating to other humans, let alone being one, but "Fundamemtalist? How?"

Perhaps you could have worked it out for yourself before committing fist to keyboard, but I'll just ask a question. Do you think that a practice designed to help prevent exploitation is socially justified, or do you think it works against your personal freedom to be exploited if you want to be?

By the way, should you feel a burning desire to be exploited, then you can perform tasks for me. I'll throw you a crust now and again and you can sleep in the garden if you want.

old comment by Canadiest

Oh yeah. Pretty much a dead cert he's in a unionized or set hours job somewhere near middle management. They not only would like to feel even more special then their skills warrant but they know how the system works. The less you pay or give benifits to the labour class (the people that get most things actually done, the producers)the more money there is for the paperpushers and overseers.

Meet these guys all the time, part of my customer base, the at home at 2 in the afternoon but insisting you know they work long hours too crowd, not just bullshit but arrogant smiley bullshit. Call them on it they'll usually try the well, used to work 14 hours a day to get to this stage. Bullshit.