jesusfish #fundie

jesusfish #fundie teens-4-christ.org

What books have you been forced to read in school that clearly go against God's word? I can't even count the ones I've been made to study for some reason or another that are completely unholy:

-Moby-Dick (homosexuality, idol-worship, defiance of the Lord, referencing of the Bible for evil, etc.)
-The Iliad / The Odessey (Greek mythology, false gods, monsters, adultery/other sexual sin)
-Much of Shakespeare (ghosts, magic, faries, witches, sexual humor)
-Maus (the suggestion that anthropomorphic mice are sentient beings)
-The Scarlet Letter (adultery mainly)
-The Hobbit (obviously...)
-Lord of the Flies (name is a reference to Satan, idol worship, paralleling a human character to Jesus)
-Bless Me, Ultima (glorification of Catholicism, witchcraft for healing, and another human/Jesus parallel)

And there are many, many more.

76 comments

old comment by Kat

Oh horrors! The evils of classic literature!
1. Moby Dick, cuz it has, lyke, a nasty word in the title. 2. The Scarlet Letter, come on! Fundies like the ones that hang out on Teens 4 Christ should love a book like that. Hester Prynne gets the sort of treatment this sort of people cream their underpants over. I'm sure they would love for every woman caught in the "sin" of pregnancy out of wedlock to be imprisoned, beaten, ostrasized by the community, forced to outwardly advertise her "sin" and then try and execute her on the suspicion of witchcraft. 3. The Hobbit, because it's obvious God finds little people living in the woods terribly sinful. 4. And heavens forbid we should ever have a book that portrays Catholicism in a positive light.

old comment by Vyoma

What, no "On the Origin of Species"?
You know, come to think of it, mathematics has nothing to do with Jesus or God or what have you. When was the last time you saw a mention of Jehovah in a geometric proof? There's nothing about the Holy Ghost in calculus. Clearly, maths are a tool of the devil and should be banned from schools! And drivers' education. Absolutely no class time is ever devoted to the Bible in drivers' ed! In fact, now that I think about it, there was no requirement to study the Ten Commandments when I took my road test. Drivers' ed is evil! Idolatry, I say! Surely, there can be no requirement for a driver's license beyond true faith in the Holy Spirit! Who needs traffic laws when Jesus is on your side? When you get right down to it, why do we need schools at all? The Bible is the only book we need to study. Everything else is just a distraction from studying scripture, and thus draws us away from God. Everything but the Bible should be banned at once! All thought leads to Hell. Only by unquestioning, unthinking, untainted faith can we achieve the Kingdom of Heaven. All of society, all of so-called human-achievement, all progress and all inquiry is merely a temptation away from God. We must put a stop to all of it now! END THOUGHT FOREVER! If it were for fundie nutsacks like this one, we'd all still be squatting in caves picking lice off of each other's scalps.

old comment by TeabagSalad

The reason you are being given these books to read is so that you get an education and hopefully develop the ability to think.
Oh sorry I forgot you have all the answers in the Bible. So you won't ever need to think for yourself will you? You poor person missing out on all the wonderful literature, science etc the world has to offer. This world is an amazing place and you're going to waste your life just because someone has brain washed you into believing that a book written by countless Humans over the last couple of thousand years. I would offer to pray for you but that would be pointless (IMHO) so I’ll just let a little bit of my optimism for the human race die at your closed mind and stupidity. Very depressing.

old comment by Sandman

OK, this one made me chuckle.
"Moby Dick" can be interpreted many ways, not least likely of which is the premise that man can not thwart God's will. Funny that you have a problem with that, and you really have to want to see homosexuality in this book for it to be there... "The Illiad and the Odyssey?" Oviously you don't know what the word "mythology" means... Shakespeare? now you're just being anti-intellectual. "Maus?" Do you know what an allegory is? Did you read the Author's Introduction? You know he doesn't intend for you to actually think they are mice... "The Scarlet Letter?" Yeah, I could see how you would object to the idea that an adultress might not, in fact, be a horrible person... What's so obvious about "The Hobbit?" "The Lord of the Flies" is about how when people abandon civilization, they "fall" from "grace." It's based on Christian beliefs. Sigh. Oh, and David, "Maus" is not fiction. It's an accurate depiction of the experiences Spiegelman's father went through as a Jew in Auschwitz during WWII. He made the characters anthromoporphic animals to gain some distance and objectivity to the subject matter.

old comment by Brian X

Why do people equate depiction with endorsement? Let's see. Pulp Fiction has several scenes that depict drug abuse. One was a freakishly sensual shot of John Travolta's character shooting up. Another one was a harrowing montage of Uma Thurman's character nearly dying from mistaking heroin for cocaine. I don't see that as being an endorsement... if anything a comeuppance for Mia's incredible vapidity.

Moby Dick: boring doorstop of a work, but essential to understanding the maritime culture, especially the whaling industry, of the 19th century.

Iliad/Odyssey: Old story. I'm sure if jesusfish was Muslim he'd have supported the demolition of those Afghani buddhas too.

Shakespeare: One of the most important and influential English language writers ever.

Maus: If you think Spiegelman was really writing about anthropomorphic mice, you're an idiot who didn't actually read the book.

The Scarlet Letter: Actually kind of an overrated potboiler, but fundies are so simpleminded.

The Hobbit: Fundies like literalism. High fantasy isn't literal at all, but they can't see that.

Lord of the Flies: Bloody, and bloody depressing, but a good book for understanding the concept of "maturity".

Don't know the last one.

old comment by T.R.

Wow! I'm actually surprised that they are teaching "Maus" in schools now. That's a great graphic novel (the sequel is also good)! Man, this kid gets to read friggin COMIC BOOKS in school (granted, Maus is pretty sophisticated for a graphic novel and features a heavy dose of real history), and s/he's still miffed. What gives? I read MAUS when I was 15 and loved it. By "loved it," I don't mean that I enjoyed the actual content - I was obviously disturbed by it. BUT, it challenged me to stretch my mind and understand the experiences of a particular people in a particular historical setting, and I appreciated it.

Blah. Oh wait. I know what it is. It isn't the mice. It's the JEWS.

old comment by BlackWolfe

Moby Dick: Wait, wait, does that really list one of the reasons for banning Moby Dick as being that it cites the Bible as a reference for evil? I'm wanting to call Poe.

-The Iliad / The Odessey: >.O Reeeeally wanting to call Poe.
-Much of Shakespeare: REEEEEEALLY wanting to call Poe.
-Maus: The anthropomorphic animals are there to soften the blow when telling such a harsh story. They are caricatures of the people actually involved in these factual events.
-The Scarlet Letter:
-The Hobbit: "Obviously..." Obviously? Because of magic, or because it's loosely based on norse mythology, or what?
-Lord of the Flies: And yet no "Bless the Beasts and the Children," which also parallels one of its characters with Christ. *sigh*

No Chronicles of Narnia, despite its representation of God as a lion and talking animals? *GASP*!

old comment by Someone

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
Please tell me the rabbits aren't going to hell.

2. Idol-worship? What about God? Isn't he technically an idol you worship?

3. Pffft... Defiance of God huh? Now, obeying God without reason is called faith.
Now, the bad points about faith. It leads to false hope, ignorance, bigotry, the Holy Crusade, the Spanish Inquisition, Al-Qaeda, George W. Bush...

3. Referencing of the Bible for evil? I'll take it as treating the Bible as a BAD book. Thats not too far from the truth. Refer to the part about defiance of the lord about the bad bits of reading the Bible, resulting in faith, point 2.

4. Greek mythology? Now thats some crack you're SMOKING! Its just myth! Just like your little Bible. Miracle its still around, unlike Greek mythology.

5. False gods? There are NO gods. Problem of evil, argument of inconsistent revelations, poor design, the list goes on.

6. Monsters? Now those are FICTION. F-I-C-T-I-O-N!

7. Adultery and sexual sin? Now I can't refute that. It IS bad after all. But if count anal sex as a sexual sin, refer to homosexuality, point 1.

8. Shakespeare stuff is just FICTION! And if you get offended by sexual humour, tell the ****ing teacher!

9. They were used to represent the JEWS! To show that they were hunted down by GERMANS, represented by CATS! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus#Animals_used

10. Nope, can't refute Scarlet Letter. Still, just say you're offended! The Bible told you to keep your mouth shut and read what you're given?

11. I assume you mean fantasy. I must stress again, F-I-C-T-I-O-N!

12. Just a reference, moving on. Refer to point 2 for idol worship. Paralleling a human character to Jesus? I don't really understand what he/she is referring to. Enlighten me.

13. Its JUST A RELIGION! No different from yours! Onto witchcraft, point 11. Nope, don't get the parallel.

Now now now, if you still don't believe me, and think this books should be burned, tell the ****ing teacher, and hope he/she isn't a Christian.

old comment by Anonymous

1. Moby Dick: Homosexuality? Where, pray tell? Oh, good heavens, don't tell me this person is a closet Ishmael/Queequeg shipper. Idol worship? That's part of Queequeg's culture, you moron. Defiance of the Lord? Ahab's fruitless quest to kill Moby Dick could be interpreted as the futility of trying to defy God's will. It's portrayed as a bad. thing. Referencing of the Bible for evil? Tch, like fundamentalist Christian leaders don't do that every day, like when they talk about, I don't know, homosexuals?

2. The Iliad/The b]Odyssey.
(if you're going to reference it, at least spell it correctly): Well, of course it references Greek mythology since it takes place in Ancient Greece. False gods? Your opinion, not theirs. The epics feature montsers that are part of Greek mythology. Adultery/other sexual sin? There are many stories of those sins in the Bible.

3. Shakespeare: Oh, no, Shakespeare included fantasy elements in his work! And this was all before Harry Potter! And he wrote and performed his plays for Protestant monarchs! How dare Shakespeare include multiple mentions of God and Christianity in his work while writing about fairies, ghosts, and magic at the same time? The blasphemy!

4. The Scarlet Letter: Hester was punished, harshly, for adultery (which technically wasn't even adultery because at the time, everyone thought her husband was dead). Hawthorne didn't glorify adultery in this novel, he just condemned the attitude of the self-righteous Puritans (who fundies are scarily reminiscent of) who ostracized her.

5. The Hobbit: Why is it obvious that it's unholy? Because it had dwarves, hobbits, wizards, and dragons? Whenever fundies bash Harry Potter, I often wonder why it is that they never seem to bash Tolkien's fantasy works as well, but this person proved me wrong.

6. Lord of the Flies: I've never actually read the book, but I kind of know what it's about. I can't comment on the accusations of the reference to Satan and idol worship, but I guess jesusfish wouldn't like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" either, since some literary critics have argued that one of the main characters, McMurphy, can serve more or less as a representation of Christ.

old comment by jsonitsac

So somebody didn't quite understand these did they?

Moby-Dick: Shows the consequences of obsession with revenge. Ahab destroys himself and his crew while chasing after the White Wale.

The Iliad and the Odessey: Written before Jesus was born and are compilations of Greek myths. It's kind of what they believed, and these books form the basis for the canon of western literature, you might want to read them.

Shakespeare: Again part of the western literary canon. Very important to know something about him.

Maus: It is an allegory for the Holocaust.

The Scarlet Letter: Hawthorne wasn't promoting adultery, he was condemning religious extremism. Ever notice how that book was set in Salem, MA?

The Hobbit: It's just fiction, mainly created so that Tolkien could have a place for his invented languages.

Lord of the Flies: Shows that darkness shows up even in the youngest most "innocent" humans.

I haven't read the last one.

old comment by Brain_In_A_Jar

I still find it difficult to believe just how many people seem to exist who, like this cretin, can't seem to grasp the idea that reading and comprehending a particular text doesn't obligate you to agree with and support whatever it conveys.

Concievably, there might exist some kind of brain disorder that leaves one in a constant state of hypersuggestibility and unable to do anything but automatically believe any text read, but I've never heard of it.

It may simply be, though, that a fundie reading depictions of people, events or actions that do not conform to his strict religious principles will become uncomfortable and alarmed at the feelings of empathy this will naturally produce towards things he's always been programmed to hate and fear unconditionally. The notion that "bad" people can still be people, that your enemy can have feelings and drives similar to your own, that you yourself could easily be such a person under the right stimuli, is incompatible with the utterly black and white worldviews of most cults and religions and their cardboard-cutout heroes and villains, gods and devils.

old comment by COR 2000

"-Moby-Dick (homosexuality, idol-worship, defiance of the Lord, referencing of the Bible for evil, etc.)"

Wait, what?! Bible of evil? Ain't the bible supposed to be holy or sumthin'? Also, Idol worship?! Oh. god forbid if one human admires another!(BTW, knowing he's a fundie, there's a little Irony there....)

"-The Iliad / The Odessey (Greek mythology, false gods, monsters, adultery/other sexual sin)"

Oh yeah, nice work: Condemning one of the greatest pieces of literature of all time, idiot. Also, since the Greek gods existed before Jesus did, I'm sure that the Greeks would consider you god to the false one. As for adultery and "sexual sin" one word: Hypocrisy

Skipping down a couple for now.....

"-Lord of the Flies (name is a reference to Satan, idol worship, paralleling a human character to Jesus)"

Just because Simon is supposed to be a Christ-like figure in the book, does not make it evil.

"-Bless Me, Ultima (glorification of Catholicism, witchcraft for healing, and another human/Jesus parallel)"

Wait, making Catholicism look good, witchcraft being used for good, and comparing someone to Jesus?! OH NOES!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!111

old comment by Anon-e-moose

I read "Moby Dick", Homer's "Odyssey/Iliad", The Complete Works of Shakespeare, "The Scarlet Letter", Tolkien's "LoTR", "Lord of the Flies" at school, and they opened up new vistas of not only literature, but ways of thinking. And I'm glad I was 'forced' to read them at the state schools I went to, where thinking for yourself is encouraged.

...oh, and one book I was 'forced' to read at school certainly did me a power of good. It was in RE class. It's title?

The Bible.

Oh yes, that particular work of literature certainly did a good job of manipulating my ability to think for myself (the raison d'etre of education, no less), and made me the well-rounded individual I am today. How did it 'work it's magic' on me? That can be summed up in this quote (emphasis added):

'Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for Atheism ever conceived'

-Isaac Asimov

Oh yes. I certainly read it. Properly.

old comment by Murf

You got to study the Hobbit? I read that on my downtime.

Also, if you paid attention to your English classes, you'd realise that most of the books you read for them will be either incredible examples of craft/wordplay, and/or they have a specific take on the human condition that makes them worthy of study.

If you can't take the use of the Messianic archetype in your literature, I'm sorry, but you're kind of screwed. And besides, Simon's subversion of the Archetype -- his death saves no one -- serves as a rather brilliant showcase for the depravity the other boys are falling into.

In Moby Dick the homoeroticism isn't too special. I missed it after all of that whale documentation.

The Iliad should've tipped your gaydar, though. Achilles and Patroklos, man. I'm disappointed in you, good sir. Besides, what the fuck does it matter that the characters worship different gods than you? Are you really that insecure in your faith?

Okay, so I'm no Shakespeare scholar, and I know nothing about his comedies, but dude, the tragedies are full of homoeroticism, and everyone dies at the end. Seriously, all the death should have you bouncin' off the walls. And honestly the sex jokes he makes are the sex jokes only I get when I first read them. Clearly, since you couldn't catch all of the homoerotic subtext, you haven't actually read any of it and are therefore parroting back what you read on Sparknotes...if that.

I have no fucking clue why you're hating on The Hobbit, man. In fact? That's one of the books that helped make me who I am, and I'm a good person. Not by your fundy definition of good, but I am objectively good in that I do my best to prevent injustice, to right wrongs, and to treat everyone with appropriate respect.

Tl;dr -- Our friend probably hasn't cracked the spines on any of the books listed, and he's stupidly unaware of all the REALLY gay bits.

old comment by Often Partisan

in fundie opinions:

- To Kill a Mockingbird - oh no a negative portrayal of racism!
- Pride and Prejudice - Elizabeth stands up to Darcy and doesn't immediately submit to being his help meet

and at uni I read
- The Communist Manifesto -self explanatory I was obviosuly being brainwashed by Marxist ideology
- The Social Contract - Rousseau while he did not like atheists advocated religious tolerance; he also disliked gulfs in wealth
- Leviathan - Hobbes was far too materialistic for a fundie; he believed even a heaven would have to be corporeal
- On Liberty - Mill defended atheists and total freedom of speech

I also did Second Treatise which would be by far the most acceptable to a fundie although Locke was ALSO an advocate of religious tolerance.

jesusfish #fundie teens-4-christ.org

76 comments

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