[on a blog post of a pro-lifer who turned pro-choice]
28 comments
1. America's prison population is overwhelmingly composed of Christians. Many of them are "strict" Christians. It seems that people who Believe they have a "get out of Hell free" card have a hard time following mere human laws.
2. The single best way to limit the number of abortions is to make birth control available. A great step would be to put a free condom dispenser in every public bathroom, especially in schools, in the country.
3. The argument is, regrettably, not for free birth control. The cost would be covered by insurance premiums.
I actually do support effective birth control over abortion. I'm sure most pro-choice people do. However, it's the anti-abortion crowd who are both anti-abortion and anti-birth control (like the Catholic church), even though more birth control will reduce the rate of abortions.
"Being evil is easier than being principled,..."
- And it is easier to write the people who disagree with you off as "evil" than it is to try and understand their position Wilson.
The word pro-choice implies that there are multiple choices. Women should also be free to choose to keep the pregnancy going. Most pro-choice people do support easily available birth controls, and extensive education to children who are about to enter puberty.
Atheists are mostly pro-human, and most live by the golden rule and the "doctrine" that what harms other people is wrong, what does not harm other people is OK.
This comment confounds me. I'm pretty pro-choice in terms of voting for lots of reasons the blogger listed in their blog (I'm a regular reader on Patheos, helps calm down the religion hate to listen to the far more reasonable voices on there... usually.)
This is comment is just so many non-sequitars I'm just like 'what are you saying?"
"But why isn’t there a pro-choice faction that supports BC, but wants to limit abortion?" We all do, you knucklehead.
But it seems you are generally pro-idiocy so, nevermind, you are simply evil so I don't have to argue with you.
But why isn’t there a pro-choice faction that supports BC, but wants to limit abortion? Because they have taken their pro-choicisim to such a level that they are in fact anti-life. Now being pro-BC doesn’t mean you have to be pro-free-BC, that is stepping things up to pro-socialism.
Then socialism is pro-life
Free birth control = fewer pregnancies.
Talk about shooting down your own argument.
>>But why isn’t there a pro-choice faction that supports BC, but wants to limit abortion? <<
There is. It is called everyone who is pro-choice . Libby Anne, writer of Love, Joy, Feminism, is advocating exactly that .
Abortion is limited not by making it illegal, which solves nothing and puts thousands of bodies on the deck, but by making it unnecessary. Contraception is the easiest way to do that, followed by better social support for low-income parents.
Wilson apparently did not understand what Libby Anne wrote.
Recognising that you have been wrong, and changing your mind, is hard. And taking an thoughtful, moderate position on an issue that tends to have people resorting to slogans and personal attacks before the discussion has even started, is hard in another, less personal, but more frustrating way. And the lady you are calling "evil" (without, I notice, any attempt to address her points) has clearly done both of those hard things. As far as I'm concerned, that makes her significantly more "courageous" than you, whose demonstration of "principle" on the quoted page has involved very little willingness to risk or sacrifice for your positions (e.g. you're willing to allow birth control, but not to help pay for it.) You have also shown little inclination to question your own actions, so as to hold yourself to a higher standard. those are the things I associate with principled people. what you are showing is not so much principle, as dogmatism. You have taken a simplistic set of principles as given, and are now shouting them blindly at anyone who will listen, without taking so much as a second to actually think about what you're saying. If that's not taking the easy way out, I don't know what is.
The pro-choice people want to limit abortion because it's disgusting so they like birth control.
This is anti-human, however, when they want to abort disabled people because they're also disgusting.
"But why isn’t there a pro-choice faction that supports BC, but wants to limit abortion?"
There is, and I like to call it "ALL OF US."
And the fundie claim that women use abortion as birth control is a misogynistic myth. It's painful and costly. No one wants to go through that.
But by limiting abortion, you mean you want to take away wlomen's rights to control their own bodies in favor of clumps of cells that aren't people. So no, other than making BC readily available to all women, we don't want to leagally limit abortion so you can decide for someone else what she should have to do with her body. We want to make it so that women have the choice to get the protection they need so the abortions aren't necessary in the first place.
I read this blog post a couple days ago. It's a very good story of a person questioning their long held beliefs.
Unfortunately there were a lot of people making comments who are incapable of critical thought.
birth should be controlled by those who are actually getting pregnant!
Wow. This blogger's post seems to show that they are in the middle of the process of evolving their thinking from the baseline "morality" they were indoctrinated with in kristian circles, to an early and awkward phase of ethical thinking. Now, once they bother to read the Webster's definition of socialism, they will stumble a little further toward the light of reason...one can hope. Seriously, how is the minor cost of birth control underwriting via subsidy compared to the societal costs of unwanted kids in economically strained homes, or worse, in the foster care system? Only lil white babies seem to find good homes quickly, tis been noted....tragically.
Evil is subjective, my friend.
I consider it quite evil to deny anyone their right to manage their own lives.
Try again later, Wilson. Better luck next time.
> Being evil is easier than being principled
True. Which is why fundies prefer to be evil and principled, rather than good and principled. Why develop a set of principles that is actually benefical to society, when it's easier to use a set of principles to crush people and opinions you don't like?
> pro-socialism
Annnnnnnnd he's gone off the rocker again and rambling about Super-Evil Stuff that has nothing to do with the topic. Please sedate him before he brings up Harry Potter!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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