Unexpected prayer policy tabled by Oak Harbor council
News of a new policy restricting what should be said during council invocations spread quickly over the weekend, upsetting many who argue a change would violated people’s freedom of religion and speech.
At least a dozen people attended Tuesday night’s council meeting to speak out on the issue; some said they are specifically upset the proposals state that speakers should not invoke the name of a deity.
“When I read the proposed resolution I was deeply disturbed to find wording that would dictate to which God I may pray when offering an invocation here in the council chambers,” said Ron Lawler, pastor for Family Bible Church.
34 comments
The US really needs to get over this. So what if some council in a jerkwater town prays before council meetings? Big deal. Not worth fighting over. Let 'em. Worry if said council passes local ordinances decreeing that only Christians can sit on the council. That would be a violation of the constitution, and worth fighting over. Invoking the Great and Mighty Constitution every time someone says 'Jesus' is overkill.
Then why don't you quit wasting your time on prayers? Praying is something a working person does on his lunch break or before going to work. If you want to get paid for praying, become a priest. Otherwise, get productive. You're holding everything up.
There's a lot of context missing here, so I read the article, this is what seems to be happening:
So here's my opinion:
@Boromir: It wasn't just one guy that prayed, the prayer seemed to be mandatory for everybody there.
Maybe one Biblical quote should be hung in goverment buildings.
The one where Jesus says you're to do it privately and not make a show of it.
The enforced group prayer shit should never have been established anywhere, even churchs violate this dictate, it's the loophole they will never speak of.
“When I read the proposed resolution I was deeply disturbed to find wording that would dictate to which God I may pray when offering an invocation here in the council chambers,”
Oh carry on.
to quote Cpt Barbossa, I'd say they were more guidelines than rules,,,,,, Miss Turner..
And " You best start believing in ghost stories, Miss Turner... you're in one"
Keep turning, dancers, you're surrounded by it.
"... to which God I may pray ..."
I thought there was just the one, according to True Christians(tm).
Having invocations -- prayers -- before a council meeting is ridiculous to begin with. If guidelines keep council members from screaming out "in the name of Jeeeeeeeeeeeezuhz" every five seconds I'm all for it. Especially since his real name was Yeshua, and "Jesus" is the Romanized version of a Greek transliteration.
Please, council members, do all your screaming in the church of your choice. Keep public meetings of our secular government for public, secular business.
Prayers are the usual way to start council meetings in the States. Maybe there should be a list of representatives of each of the religions and the freethinkers of the city, and each could take it in turn to conduct an invocation or inspirational address at the start of the meeting, providing they are in keeping with the decorum of a city council meeting and mindful that there people of other religions and none present. Seems fair to everyone.
a change would violated people’s freedom of religion and speech.
The First Amendment doesn't say you have freedom of religion and speech. It says the government is forbidden to restrict your freedom of speech, establish a church or interfere with your free exercise of your religion - similar, but not quite the same thing. The council is part of the government. While you can pray all you want, the council, as part of the government, can't. Simple solution - get rid of invocations. The whole purpose of having them was to ask God's help and guidance in the council's work. Without God, they serve no purpose and have nothing to do with the business the council is convened for.
If some on the council want to pray so badly, can't they have a prayer meeting ten minutes, or so, before the actual meeting? Those who want to pray can come early, while those who'd rather not pray can arrive on time.
When I read the proposed resolution I was deeply disturbed to find wording that would dictate to which God I may pray when offering an invocation here in the council chambers
I'm disturbed that people like the pastor here think they have to violate the Constitution and force everyone to recognize the christian god prior to official government meetings. I wish all these backwater towns and even large cities would abandon the idea that they have to open official proceedings with prayers.
It's a function of the government and therefore should be free from religion. Go home and bvlather on all you want about God or Jesus or Odin or whatever religious nonsense you like. Not in public, not at a govenrment function and not on public property.
P.S. Invocations don't seem to help anyway, just look at the Congress.
I was deeply disturbed to find wording that would dictate to which God I may pray when offering an invocation here in the council chambers
Think about what you said here; now if you could just take the next step...
I agree with Borimir. Folks, this stuff is small potatoes. Let's save our indignation for important stuff.
Suggestion to the Council: At your next meeting, instead of worrying about prayers, you could, you know, conduct council business.
Agreed with Ebon,
Point is, nothing is stopping religious from praying and having their beliefs, rather everyone is free to not have another's beliefs forced upon them. You are perfectly free to pray and read the bible in public places and should be (fight for your right to do so if it is infringed). But do not take that as a cue that your faith trumps other's, do your prayer in privacy and do not force it on others.
“When I read the proposed resolution I was deeply disturbed to find wording that would dictate to which God I may pray when offering an invocation here in the council chambers,” said Ron Lawler, pastor for Family Bible Church.
How disturbed would you be if Allahs name was invoked by a guy with a towel on his head?
@Old Viking, Boromir
While it seems like such a small thing, at what point do you draw the line? When do you decide that rights are worth standing up for? Only when it's a right you care about? Only when it directly affects you?
Isn't that how "First they came..." starts?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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