Sodomites burn eternally. Wait, never mind.
47 comments
"The question: How is radically disowning the opinions of a poet whose influence on the Western imagination has been nothing short of monumental at all a good idea?"
Firstly, Dante's influence on the Western imagination is hardly as monumental as you imply. Also, Dante is not an acknowledged prophet of God, and thirdly, why should a poet's opinions automatically be considered valid on any other subject than poetry?
I'd say there are many more important moral issues than consenting adults having whatever kind of sex they want to. The only reason we do hear about it is because you people continue to protest about it. The rest of us have accepted it as the natural variation that it is, and you very seldom hear anything about it in Sweden.
I'd say that if you're against marriage equality (no "supposed" about it), you're an enemy of human rights.
Dante is not that relevant to us here in the 21st century.
What Dante wrote was essentially bible fan-fiction, fan-fiction that goes against canon (heh!) to boot.
Also, please provide a source for your “actual quotation”. And if we have to regard the writings of influential poets and writers as gospel (heh again!) , that would mean that
- Prospero’s island exists, Titania, Oberon and the rest of the fair folk are real
"How is radically disowning the opinions of a poet whose influence on the Western imagination has been nothing short of monumental at all a good idea?"
An argument from authority with regard to the afterlife is always a fallacy.
How is radically disowning the opinions of a poet whose influence on the Western imagination has been nothing short of monumental at all a good idea?
If they're a homophobic bigot, then it's a very good idea.
If being a famous author means that your opinions should be followed by everyone, then we should follow Mark Twain's views on religion.
Disagreeing with someone is not radically disowning them. Dante lived in the Middle Ages, of course he had what we see as a very backwards view on homosexuality.
Oh and guys, it's called the Divine Comedy, not Dante's Inferno.
Dante was a Catholic, or as you fundamentalists say a deluded, Mary-worshiping, rosary rattling slave of the pope who sought absolution for sins from humans and believed in works righteousness.
Are you still pushing to claim him as an authority?
"Dante says that sodomites end up in the seventh of the nine circles of Hell. Modern Westerners, on the other hand, think that anyone who stands against supposed “marriage equality” is an “enemy of the human race” (an actual quote).
Oh, I dunno...:
image
...you tell me. 85% of people can't be wrong .
@Dr. Shrinker
Right-wing Fundamental ist Christain Protestants are 'pro-Life ' and anti-abortion. Last time I heard, those were purely Catholic doctrines. As in Papist . [/Ian Paisley]
Seems we pro-Choice Atheists are the real Protestants these days, when these pseudo -Protestants - 'PINOs' - are trying to out-Catholicise the RCC.
So... being gay is bad because Dante says so?
An original argument at least, I'll give clockocean that much.
Still a "WTF?!" though.
You're not an enemy of the human race, you're simply misguided. Take some time to think from a gay person's perspective. They've been trying to marry the person they love for decades now and a set of religiously motivated people are flagrantly disregarding the separation of church and state that should have made their objections a non-issue in the eyes of the law. You're fine with them having negative opinions of you and even telling you that you're going to hell but all you care about is being with the person you love and being treated equally under the law. That's what you need to consider. Gays aren't some evil army trying to take over the world. They're just ordinary people paying the bills, having friends, eating, and sleeping. Or if you want it in religious term, they're just your ordinary sinner. No worse than the man who skips church every once in a while, the man who pirates movies and music, or the man who lies to get more dates. Certainly they can't be worse than us atheists. So why allow all of those sinners to get married but not this set of sinners?
Dante's Divine Comedy is a poem. It is fiction. The poet's influence on Western culture is considerable but, beyond Italy, hardly monumental. Besides, Dante's opinion in Paradiso that heaven is exclusively populated by Jews and Catholic and Orthodox Christians might give clockocean pause for thought. Given our OP's position about what "modern Westerners" think, one might consider clockocean a sower of discord. Sowers of discord are confined to the eighth circle of Hell.
@DJjaffacake
The Inferno is one part of the trilogy that makes up the Divine Comedy, Paradiso and Purgatorio being the other two.
The Church condemned gay sex. So, of course, must Dante. But his treatment of Brunetto Latini was actually pretty sympathetic compared to most of the others in Hell. "Sodomites" were placed among the Blasphemers and Usurers (money-lenders), and classified as a "sin of violence" (an offense against "nature"). Sins of violence, in Dante's scheme, were not as bad as uniquely human failings, such as trouble-makers, false prophets, frauds and traitors.
@ Kuno: Dick III is these days seen more the other way - obviously he was nothing like Shakespeare's version, but the Richard III Society have been portraying him a some kind of saint lately, which is even more annoying; Shakespeare was writing fiction, after all.
It’s pretty terrible that homosexuality and related degeneracy have become the most salient moral issues of our time
We have much more pressing moral issues, such as violence and childhood hunger, but you twits won't shut up about "Big Gay" and focus on the important stuff.
Your logic has swayed me. Now excuse me while I sodomize an underage boy. What? Michealangelo did it, and he painted the Sistine Chapel for the Pope! If the Pope approves, and he made such fine statues and paintings, surely his personal life is an example to us all!
If sodomites burn eternally, we could power the world with one dead person.
We'd also have a lot of clogged up crematoria
Fundies and right-wingers talk about gays and abortion so they don't have enough time left to talk about poverty, wage theft.
I like Dante, too. If he'd lived in this century he would have created fabulous video games. However, most of the scenarios he created had nothing to do with actual Christian doctrine.
Sodomites who molest CHILDREN wind up in seventh circle of hell in Dante's Inferno.
Normal homosexuals go to purgatory in Dante's interpretation.
In either place, they do lots of running.
Do you know the one I like?
The day was bright, the sky was blue,
Is that by Dante?
@Mattiedef: "Normal homosexuals go to purgatory in Dante's interpretation."
You're right. I had forgotten that there were homosexuals on Purgatory's Cornice of Lust (running in the opposite direction from the straight fornicators!). According to translator Robert Pinsky, Brunetto Latini was suspected of being a pedophile (he was married with three children).
Fun fact: Dante wrote the Divine Comedy partially to poke fun at and critique the Vatican. This is why a lot of popes and clergy are in Hell.
Additionally, homosexuals are in Purgatory, not Hell.
If you're going to try and use Dante to support your arguments, maybe you should read the Divine Comedy or learn a bit about the man first.
@Danarth: To be fair, it _is_ a direct quote . . . from Scalia's dissent in Windsor, in which he accuses the majority (and, in particular, Kennedy) of labeling opponents of same-sex marriage "enemies of the human race" by declaring "actual animus" to be the basis of DOMA's ban on federal recognition of same-sex marriages that are legal in the state in which the couple resides.
Dante also condemned his political opponents to hell. The Inferno's certainly influential and I've heard its a great read, but I'm not sure that it makes Dante an authority on who goes to hell and why, if there is such a place.
"How is radically disowning the opinions of a poet whose influence on the Western imagination has been nothing short of monumental at all a good idea?"
I can think of plenty of good reasons not to blindly accept the word of a poet who lived 800 years ago on matters relating to morality in the 21st century.
If this guy has to appeal to DANTE as an authority figure, he must be really desperate.
think that anyone who stands against supposed “marriage equality” is an “enemy of the human race”
Citation or it never happened. I've seen a lot of fundies claim that someone said that (usually someone they loathe) but never seen the actual source.
"...homosexuality and related degeneracy have become the most salient moral issues of our time..."
Not genocide.
Not the damage that will be done to future generations if we fail to slow global warming.
Not rapes, not pederasty, nor corruption nor torture.
Your squeamishness at what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is, for you, the most salient moral issue of the time!
This is why you fail.
One day, clockocean is chloroformed from behind, then bundled into van. When he awakes, he finds himself in a windowless room, tied to a chair
(*Ignites plasma torch *)
You once said 'Sodomites burn eternally'. Now, let's see how long a right-wing Fundamental ist Christain - and homophobic bigot - such as you burns.
...what's that, you're screaming? You don't want to be burned by an ultra-hot flame, such as this Plasma Torch I'm holding? Well, I'm afraid you should have thought of that, before you so much as thought of having the right to even think of saying what you did, didn't you?! You lot are so against the rights of others not exactly like you , give me just one good reason why I shouldn't do the same to you as you wish your so-called 'God of unconditional Love ' will do to homosexuals, just because you don't like them yourself, and you're saying what you originally did purely as a revenge fantasy against such people...?!
(*Switches plasma torch to full power *)
...wait, what's that you're screaming? Never mind...! >:D
[/"Hostel"] [/Sauce for the Goose ]
“anyone who stands against supposed “marriage equality” is an “enemy of the human race””
You don’t want to marry an individual, for whatever reason, then don’t.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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