QUESTION: If there is a perfect Bible in English, doesn't there also have to be a perfect Bible in French, and German, and Japanese, etc?
ANSWER: No. God has always given His word to one people in one language to do one job; convert the world. The supposition that there must be a perfect translation in every language is erroneous and inconsistent with God's proven practice.
(etc etc...)
Thus in choosing English in which to combine His two Testaments, God chose the only language which the world would know.
125 comments
You do realize that the bible was put together in other languages before it was translated to the KJV, right?
In fact I believe the KJV was taken from a Latin source, no original documentation used.
But hey, if it was good enough for a seventeenth century tyrant king, it's good enough for us.
fuck off and die.
What about the supposition that the perfect translation to do one job and convert the world was in a now nearly dead language? Looks like God shot his wad too early.
Oh.. you thought English was the perfect word of God? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you are A STUPID FUCKING NUTBAG. (sorry that just slipped out. I'll try to be more calm... maybe as soon as YOU BRAINLESS EMBARRASSMENTS TO HUMANITY GET THE FUCK OFF THE PLANET! (again.. sorry. I'm been reading too much of these PATHETIC SHIT-BAGS lately.))
"What are we going to do tomorrow night, God?"
"Same thing we do every night, fundie...try to convert the world!"
There's a perfect bible in English? Since when?
EDIT: Also you seem to forget that it at one point was illegal to possess a bible translated into any of the vulgar languages, i.e. anything other than Latin.
the thing I find hilarious aabiut this is that English were once considered wrong, too. oh, fanatics, you make me laugh.
Well, if we want to be perfectly consistent on the language question, one must admit that the first language that the entire Bible was published in was Greek, both the Septuagint and the New Testament. Not that one would expect a logical argument from Jack Chick or one of the Chicklets.
Wait a minute, this writer thinks the Septuagint was a hoax? Ho lee shit. I didn't think the KJV-only crowd could get any dumber...
Hebrew, Greek, Latin and Aramaic, they all came long before English. Someone needs to tell the cartoonist he's seriously wrong.
I knew Jack Chick was a KJV nut, but this comment has gotta be one of the weirdest and most illogical ones he has ever come up with. Didn't occur to Jack that the reason English is the common language used in printing Bibles is because a large fraction of Christians happen to live in the west.
Also, if this guy wants the whole world to use the English language, then why the freakin' heck are they printing Chick Tracts in foreign languages? Doublethink, much?
Lets cut Jack some slack: he doesn't claim the Bible was written in English; he claims that English is the only proper language for the translation of Both the Hebrew OT and the Koine NT.
It's still nutty. But nut as nutty as thinking that Jesus or Moses would actually speak 16th century English (as this is what some people seem to make from the quote as it is presented).
p.s. In a weird, masochist way I am somewhat of a Chick Tract fan. ;)
Anything that comes out of the mouth of J.T.C. is an instant fstdt classic.
Oh, and regarding Dr. Fishcake's image: www.lolcatbible.com
So, why knock down the tower of babel?
Never read your bible did you? No dinner until you do your homework.
If English speaking people were supposed to convert the world, why did God wait 1600 years to produce his perfect conversion tool? You mean he didn't care whether all the people who lived in those centuries followed him or not?
And the OT plus the various Christian writings were all in Greek long before 1611.
You'd think if English was to be the ultimate vehicle for Truth, God would have revealed himself to those living in England, not those living in the Near East.
Then shouldn't the 'perfect bible' be written in Aramaic? Or Hebrew?
Oh, sorry... clouding the issue with facts again.
Why would the perfect Bible be a translation into English? Is English just seen as by default the most important language due to some ethnocentrism? Wouldn't it be perfect in, say, Aramaic or Hebrew instead of English? English wasn't even around at the time. Why would God intend the Bible to only be in one language that only became the Earth's dominant language recently?
Yeah, 'cause everyone in the world speaks Jacobean English.
Besides, since God is perfect and all, why can't He make His thoughts clear in every language? No one ever says that you don't understand plasma physics unless you've read Voprosy teorii plazmy in the original Russian; why can't it be the same with holy books?
Right, that's why you fundies constantly screw up the meanings of words from an archaic dialect of English. Right?
@Junie B:
In case you didn't notice, you were agreeing with the previous posts. Most people here are more clever than you give them credit for. Keep the insults of our regulars down to a minimum, eh?
"God has always given His word to one people in one language to do one job; convert the world. The supposition that there must be a perfect translation in every language is erroneous and inconsistent with God's proven practice."
Riiiiiight. And to truly appreciate the greatness of Shakespeare's works, one should read them in the original Klingon.
~David D.G.
I'm sorry? I didn't study two foreign languages for someone to tell me one of them is supposed to be the only one I am allowed to use. I'm sure my devout, poor and underschooled neighbours would be indignantly surprised, too.
What's the soup?
Cream of bullshit!
These same people believe Jesus was white with blond hair and blue eyes.
Because hey, if English was good enough for Jesus it should be good enough for all of us.
At least when Jack Chick expresses his idiocy through his normal comic books, people can photoshop in their own brand of idiocy to replace it. You can't do that with paragraphs of text. If only he had made his absurd claims about the supposed perfection of a translation of a string of translations in comic form...
That's funny, I recall being told that Adam and Eve spoke god's perfect langueage and that it was lost at Babel, why wouldn't god give us his perfect word in his perfect language, giving us a chance to interperet it.
I ask this because english is a horrible language, and even worse to learn as a second language...
I suppose its all bullshit.
There is absolutely NO perfect scripture in any language.
Proof? Too many different interpretations. Your g0d can't communicate without contradicting itself. Besides, Moses and Aaron couldn't even agree on the plot. Obviously.
Perfect irony: A cross carved from a coprolite.
Actually despite the poster's assignation this comment isn't from Chick himself, it's just from a book hosted on his website. The author is actually a Samuel C. Gipp.
The *really* funny stuff is much further on, e.g. where he answers the question "Can a translation be as good as the originals?"
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_30.asp
Essentially he states that the bible uses the word "translation" in three places and that in all cases the "translated" situation was better than the original.
Unfortunately in no case is the word "translated" being used in the sense of linguistic translation!
Could I interest you in a Lolcat translation?
It's highly entertaining, I can assure you.
Gen. 1
1 Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he did not eated dem.
2 Da Urfs no had shapez An haded dark face, An Ceiling Cat rode invisible bike over teh waterz.
If God wanted us to have one language, why did He destroy the Tower of Bable?
Why didn't God save Tyndale from being burned at the stake for translating the New Testament into English? It can't be that he did a bad job of it - the KJB translators copied most of it word for word.
Why did the KJB translators take such pains to explain why it was OK to translate the sacred scripture into other languages?
Why would God choose a language that was unintelligible only a thousand years ago? Lord's prayer in "English", 1,000 years ago:
"Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum, Si þin nama gehalgod. To becume þin rice, gewurþe ðin willa, on eorðan swa swa on heofonum. Urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us todæg, and forgyf us ure gyltas, swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum. And ne gelæd þu us on costnunge, ac alys us of yfele. soþlice."
I am unaware the Bible was written in Chinese.
Because that's the most spoken record, as far as I know.
Yes, we all know Jesus spoke perfect Jacobean English.
"Hard on for the KJV Award" nominee, anyone?
One teeny, tiny flaw in your plan is that you would have to translate God's Word into that heathen foreigner mumjo-jumbo language in order for them to understand what you were saying.
Either that or offer free english lessons in countries abroad.
Methologica's post carries such truth in only two words.
John's carries it in a more complete fashion, albeit less poignant.
Thank both of you! :D
Don't actually read that bible much, do you?
1) god is not Jesus: one is the father, the other the son
2) the "one people" that god spoke to were the Jews
3) there was no English in those days, but there was Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek
4) Jesus was the "spread the word" guy, not god. Have you ever seen an evangelical Jew?
How does that one lonely little overworked brain cell keep your autonomic system functioning all by itself?
"17th Century Tyrant King"
Er, Jimmy the One might have been a bit light-on-his-toes-in-a-very-camp-way, & Scottish to boot, but he was no tyrant - even by today's standards, let alone his own time.
P.S.
Would this 'perfect bible' be written in English, or American English...(which everyone knows is a base & inferior form:-p)
mockeldritch wrote:
"Actually despite the poster's assignation this comment isn't from Chick himself, it's just from a book hosted on his website. The author is actually a Samuel C. Gipp."
Ah! That makes more sense.
I seem to remember reading something, somewhere, which said that Jack Chick DID believe there was a KJV-like "perfect translation" of the Bible into Spanish. It wouldn't make sense for him to turn around and say that such a translation doesn't exist.
Oh, wait a minute, yes it would. Chick doesn't have to be consistent, he's a fundie!
Reminds me of the South Park episode "Starvin Marvin in Space"
Eithiopian: (speaks in native language involving clicks)
Missionary: No no no. In God's language, Engligh, please.
Oddly enough, Chick is one of the most prolific and considered one of the most accomplished cartoonists of his generation...only problem is, as seen in this quote, he's a f*ckin' loooooooooooon.
yay racism
Does that mean only people who speak english go to heaven? Like, a fundie in france, no matter how fundie they are, is still going to hell because they obey a french bible and not an English one?
In the land of the blind, a one eyed man is king.
Jack Chick, [IQ 25] can only appeal to those even dimmer - fundies.
8% of the world speaks English. Fuck your ethnocentricism, nationalist fucktard.
Besides, the original language wasn't English. English didn't even exist. Judah Maccabee compiled the Torah in Hebrew, and the NT and OT were first combined in Greek and Latin. So sholve your pride.
Let's see. When the apostles were about to start their mission, they were bathed in the fire of the Holy Spirit and acquired the ability to speak in tongues, meaning that regardless of the fact they spoke ancient Hebrew, EVERYONE could understand them. There is a Biblical precedent that the Word transcends every language.
Please point out in the Bible the section where English is defined to the language of God?
I don't know where some people get the idea that only the English translations of the Bible are the true ones. I'm pretty sure God would be very happy to see his Word translated into many different languages.
Oh, and what's this crap about English being the only language the whole world would know. Last time I checked, most people don't speak English.
oooo... I'm sorry Jack Chimp we would have accepted Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, or even Latin. English simply isn't old enough.
Unfortunately for Chick, the facts are different from this. The Old Testament was translated into Greek in the BCs, which was the language the New Testament was also written in. The Eastern Orthodox Christians (in their Greek-speaking churches) still use the LXX translation of the Old Testament and the original Greek New Testament.
The KJV was based off of a version of the Bible by Erasmus (who was condemned as a heretic by the Catholic Church following his death) called the Textus Receptus. Martin Luther also translated his version of the Bible (which, of course, was in German) from the same source text.
But, the KJV-only crowd never lets facts get in the way of their fantasies. You know that a group is batshit crazy when even most Fundies think they are crazy.
Gee, that's what the Muslims say about the Koran and ARABIC. And, you know, on the numbers they're more right than you are.
1. Chick is an idiot, and the Hebrew was translated into many ancient languages (such as Greek and Aramaic) before the brith of Jesus. Hence the two testaments existed in a Greek form, and Later in at least two differnt Latin translations (the Vetus Latina and the Vulgate of Jerome). However the KJV (which was far from the frist complete translation of the Bible into English--the Lollards had one and Henry VII commissioned one, among others) was done from the best avaialbe Hebrew and Greek texts, not the Vulgate as some commentors here wrongly asserted.
2. I must admit, however, that there is something to Chick's assertion (if you check the whole quote on his website), that English has a natural superioirty to other modern languages and that it reached this condition for the frist time in the late 16th century, as Sir Philip Sydney said, 'English hath it equally with any other tongue in the world.'
3. As for this comment above:
"Let's not tell him that English is a germanic language and that it has a load of french words."
And more Latin and Greek loanwords than any other Modern language--All that is what gives it ist strength. But how is that relevant?
'Let's see. When the apostles were about to start their mission, they were bathed in the fire of the Holy Spirit and acquired the ability to speak in tongues, meaning that regardless of the fact they spoke ancient Hebrew, EVERYONE could understand them. There is a Biblical precedent that the Word transcends every language.'
I doubt if any of the Apostles could speak Hebrew, a scholarly language by that time (except possibly paul but he was not present at Pentacost). In any case the language of the early Church was clealry Greek--most of the early members would have been bilingual in Aramaic and Greek--Even Jesus might have known enough Greek to get by with the bosses he would have encountered as a day-laborer.
The medieval Welsh (who certainly knew at least as much about the matter as Jack Dick), held that French was the language of pigs, English was the language of men, and that Welsh was the language of heaven. From this, we can see that the translation of the Bible into Welsh, first completed by William Morgan in 1588 (encouraged and authorized by Queen Bess and Parliament), was in the intended "one language" that God had in mind, and that those who think that English is supposed to be the one language have, quite simply, gotten it wrong. So all these supporters of the English--whether KJV or other version--need to go learn Welsh, so they can read their Book in the language of heaven, as god obviously intended!
So there.
Ummm...the Bible wasn't written originally in English. The Old Testament was written in Aramaic and/or Hebrew, and the New Testament was written in Greek; then the Bible was translated into Latin (in the Latin Vulgate), and then finally English.
I don't think that the English Bible is perfect--but what errors there are, are trivial and don't mess with the important aspects of the Bible. And other translations are not inferior because they were written in another language.
"I doubt if any of the Apostles could speak Hebrew, a scholarly language by that time (except possibly paul but he was not present at Pentacost). In any case the language of the early Church was clealry Greek--most of the early members would have been bilingual in Aramaic and Greek--Even Jesus might have known enough Greek to get by with the bosses he would have encountered as a day-laborer."
Thanks for the clarification!
Still the Bible states that at Pentecost, the Apostles received the gift of Tongues, so there is actually Biblical precedence for the belief that the Word of God would be understood in every language rather than the belief that (american) English is the One True Language. Throw in the story of the Tower of Babel which was supposed to explain why people spoke different languages, this claim pretty much has no basis in Bible, which is what most fundies seem to think.
There are no words......
*headdesk ad infinitum*
It also surprises me because he said somewhere else on the site that Martin Luther (the translator of the first German bible) was a good translator.
Edit: I also just read on Wikipedia that the German translation influenced the King James translation.
Thus in choosing English in which to combine His two Testaments, God chose the only language which the world would know.
Then why are the scriptures in Hebrew?
And not everyone in the world can read, write, or even speak english.
@Martha Jones: Unfortunately, no, I do not speak (or understand spoken) Welsh. I can read some, but have sadly discovered that I have no facility for any language beside English. It's a lovely language to listen to, but I have to content myself with communicating in "the language of men."
I do have an old Welsh bible--but it's more a keepsake than anything else. I'm not much inclined to read the thing in any language!
You know, I'm pretty sure that Jesus' native language would have been Aramaic, with it being possible for him to have known bits of Greek and Hebrew, as well.
If Jesus were talking to his followers, he would have talked to them in Aramaic. The New Testament was written in Greek koine.
This means that someone translated Jesus' words into Greek, from the original Aramaic.
This may well be the stupidest thing Chick ever wrote.
And that, my friends, saying something!
sorry but you are all misunderstanding the man , after all this is the great tract merchandiser.
He means that today the only perfect Bible is the KJV.
Inspired by God himself, must be right 0_0 right ?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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