The attitude of "saying sex = gender is transphobic" doesn't really belong in WoSJ, I think. Because... "sex = gender" IS transphobic.
["Even when talking about animals?"]
...well, yeah. Equating sex with gender in general is. It might be more convenient when talking about animals, but ultimately it's a reinforcement of the notion that sex equals to gender. There's a possibility I'm off base, being cis and all, but that's what I think at least.
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So you're saying that even though animals (as far as I'm aware) have no such thing as gender identity, we can't say that they don't because it might lead some people to conclude that the same is true of humans?
Wait, is this person actually trying to say there are trans animals? Do animals even have a concept of gender identity? I think that's even stupider than the concept of homosexual animals, since applying human terms to animal sexuality is pretty stupid.
@TimeToTurn
#1916208, Distind most likely had nothing to do with this. He only gets personally involved in a few quotes. What happens is, someone submits the quote, and then people vote on it, and if it gets enough votes, it's automatically submitted.
I'm guessing the people who voted in favor of this were the "LOLSJWS" crowd.
@TimeToTurn
Animals are a lot more fluid on gender and sex than humans tend to be, actually. There are lionesses that will sometimes grow manes and behave like lions, hens that grow larger combs, behave like roosters, and even try to mate with other hens, not to mention several amphibians that can outright change sex.
So, yeah, animals can be trans. In a sense.
"saying sex = gender" is most often a common misconception rather then deliberate transphobic rhetoric.
Remember Hanlon's razor, people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_reed_frog
'These west African frogs have been known to spontaneously change sex from female to male. This likely occurs when the population does not have enough males to allow procreation and is accomplished when a chemical trigger activates the sex gene to disintegrate the female organs and develop the male ones'
...if only attitudes could change in certain humans just as easily. Perhaps in the future.
Not seeing any of the crew of USS Voyager say anything derogatory about the fact that Species 8472 have several genders. And even they - brought into this realm via the deliberate actions of the Borg - eased off on their aggression, when they created bases in the Delta Quadrant - even disguising themselves as humans - to understand those in this galaxy.
Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future: where all forms of discrimination didn't exist in the minds of forward thinking, progressive humans. And beyond...!
Not fundie even if you disagree.
I mean, I don't even agree that saying "sex = gender" is transphobic per se. It's more antiquated, like saying Negro in the '70s. There are a lot of people who just need a nudge to be reminded that's not the way that it works anymore, and even then there are a lot of situations where it just doesn't matter and it's not even worth the correction.
So I don't even agree with this person's hard line, but I still don't think they are fundie.
@lofgren
To be fair, it doesn't seem like they're that hard on the hard line of the post. They even consider that they might be wrong about it.
There's literally no reason for this to be here other than someone went "lol social justice" or got angry at this person in the thread and submitted it.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an FQA member. I have personal experience with the forum, and I suspect a lot of my self-esteem issues can be traced back to as much that place as the fundie church I used to go to when I was a kid.
It's amusing to see all the transgender activists and SJW cultists here squawking that "This doesn't belong here! Just because you disagree doesn't make it fundie!!" This absolutely belongs here and not because anyone disagrees with it. It belongs here because it reflects a fundamentalist mindset, i.e., certain factual claims must be wrong because they violate my predetermined moral judgments. "Evolution is wrong because it contradicts Genesis." and "Equating sex and gender is wrong because it is transphobic." both reflect fundamentalist mindsets, which eschew factual inquiry in favor of conformity to dogmatism. Incidentally, they both reflect serious mental illness.
I'm a trans person, and I'm also inclined to say that this is (on the milder end of) fundie. It shows a deliberate lack of awareness of alternative views based solely on the author's desire to wave a tribal flag. When the author says, "There's a possibility I'm off base, being cis and all ..." that shows the author's desire to be seen by others as part of the in-group - those who oppose transphobia in all its forms. While I appreciate the good intentions of cisgender allies in making the world safer and happier for folks like me, I'd rather they concentrate on things like calling out politicians and other assholes who are trying to force transwomen (because they never acknowledge the existence of transmen in these hateful tirades...) into men's public restrooms than silly semantic arguments like this.
Moreover, there are, in fact, a lot of people in the world for whom sex does equal gender. We call those folks cisgender - people for whom their biological sex and gender identity are congruent - and it's perfectly fine for them to be that way. As long as people recognize that there are those of us in the world for whom that's not the case, there's no problem for someone to say that their sex and gender identity are aligned.
From episode 9 of "Haiyore! Nyaruko-san":
image
After the actions of a possessed Tamao Kurei, Mahiro and Nyaruko have swapped bodies. Nyaruko - as Mahiro - has just discovered the... joys of masturbation.
Curious how he/she has a rainbow aura around him/her, eh?
Especially so, when Mahiro's VA - Eri Kitamura (whose actual character at that time is inhabiting Nyaruko's body) is a woman .
PROTIP: 'Nyaruko' is just one of the 1000 forms of Nyarlathotep: who is portrayed in the Lovecraft Mythos as a male .
...and you thought that those who perceived "H!N-s"'s Hastur as a 'Bridget'-esque trap - even though he wears male clothing in that anime series - was confusing enough?!
The gender politics in the manga/anime (and parody of the Shoujo genre) "Ouran High School Host Club" is a good place to start.
Next time I'm in the library, I'll see if they have that particular tome. Thanks. b^_^d
@LGB-PeriodFullStop
I'd respond to your argument but your username made me laugh at you and decide against it.
You're one of those people who enjoy intentionally excluding trans people from the movement even though the movement *owes its start* to trans people.
That says everything I need to know about you. You already fit the definition of fundie better than "Even Then" does. Which goes without saying, as "Even Then" isn't even a fundie, not by any definition. Not even the definition you provided.
@1916927
I appreciate your input. With the caveat that I'm not trans, I actually disagree with you, but respectfully. While my sex and my gender do match up, I do not consider those words to be synonymous (though I occasionally use them as synonyms out of habit.) My physical sex is male. My mental gender is male. That is why I am cis.
What he's criticizing is the idea that they're simply interchangeable terminology. And I agree that there are more important things to worry about - but that doesn't mean this isn't important either.
And it's not like it's a mutually exclusive thing, either - criticizing terminology on the internet can be done at the same time as criticizing bad laws designed to discriminate against trans people. And while I haven't read all of Even Then's posts, they might have easily done just that in another thread.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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