*Another poster advocates making Israel a multi-ethnic state*
YOU WILL CAUSE TO OUR OWN DESTRUCTION! STOP SPEAKING AGAINST US.
32 comments
One of these days you might want to look about you and realise its not 1973 anymore, that no-one amoung your neighbours in the middle-east is capable of 'throwing you into the sea' regardless of how much some of their citizens might say they want to, and that its you, not them, who are the violent, brutal dictators oppressing a dispossessed and marginalised minority in lands annexed from their rightful owners. And before you say 'Iran', let me say I agree, Iran is a genuine threat that demands a response. So go fight Iran, rather than use it as an excuse to annex parts of other people's countries and kill people who don't worship the same sky-daddy as you.
it's people like that guy who make me understand why i know a few israelis who actually filed for political exile. turns out most israelis are not giant bags of dicks. funny, that. of course, stormfront will contradict me, but what do i care? if you are reasoned and reasonable, all's well for me
Isn't Israel already a multiethnic state? Jews (from all over Europe and Russia), Arabs, Druzes and so on.
Maybe if you voted a government into place that didn't start a three day bombing spree every time an Arab throws a sorry excuse for a bomb over the border they wouldn't want to kill you.
I think that this sort of siege mentality is a bigger barrier to peace than the Settler Movement. The Ultra-Orthodox population is a minority, and not very popular within Israel, but they're able to get their policies enacted because so many people have gained this mentality that if they give an inch they'll be faced with a second Holocaust. Their fear isn't entirely unfounded, given their history with the arab world and its continued anti-semitism, but by holding onto this mentality long after they've already gained the upper hand in the conflict, they've developed a metaphorical "twitchy trigger finger" that ends up just perpetuating the situation.
And making Israel a secular state governed by all the kinds of people who live there in a true democracy free from the theological bile of the Ultra Orthodox, will not lead to a second Holocaust.
And I agree with Warren, it's not 1973 anymore, Israel is not as vulnerable as it used to be, and the Jewish people are no longer on the brink of annihilation. We're safe now, we're a stable culture and we're in no danger of another Shoah. The only legitimate threat to Israel is Iran. Setting aside the theocratic aspects of Israel will not lead to it's destruction.
@#1522125
Hey there D, how ya doin?
@Mech610
Hey there D, how ya doin?
You speak as though the Book of Judges isn't about the Jews entering Canaan and utterly wiping out the people living there. Just sayin'.
Also, possibly half the comments on this site are sweeping, often more-or-less unjustified or barely-justified criticisms of entire religions. Specifically calling out posts that insult a given religion would mean calling out like 30-40% of the posts on this site. Not saying you shouldn't, just that it's a lost cause and probably not worth the time.
@ Nyarlathotep:
@Greater Good
The funny little irony is that statement itself could comfortably qualify as a conspiracy theory. Grounded in mathematical potential or not it still implies a collusion between independet units that is not demonstrated. I will defer to the concept of emergent complexity, a bottom-up process where individuals collectively arrive at a point that looks chosen by a singular governing authority. I think memetics also comes into play here.
@Nyarlathotep
First off, your name is fantastic, it pleases me x). Second, don't worry, I am more than aware of Judaism's failings and the brutality present in it's stories. Though I was raised in the Jewish faith, I'm one of those people who tries to reconcile my desire to remain a part of the community while keeping a secular worldview. I'm one of those 'Cultural Jews'.
That said, I believe #1522125 is D Laurier if only because that comment seemed laced with D's particular brand of barely concealed spite towards Judaism. Mostly the line, "I guess Jewish ideology is to murder all non-Jews then." reeks of the kind of sweeping generalizations that D made up until he apparently vanished from the site. Also because of my weird, apparent fixation on that jackass over the last couple of weeks XP.
I agree with you and Greater Good though, many users on this site are so quick to pass judgment on the idiotic, fundy and racist comments of others while making comments oftentimes just as hateful themselves. I feel as though there needs to be more comment moderation over here, or at least we need to be given the ability to report the worst offenders. We can't really continue to hold ourselves up as tolerant and decent people while at the same time allowing the same kind of intolerance we all mock and despise to fester in our comment boards.
If that makes any sense and I don't just sound like a hypocritical lunatic XP.
@ Gabriel LaVedier: I didn't mean to make it sound CTSTDT-worthy. However, I implore you to look up WMDKitty's quote on this website. For every two comments that call her out on her misandry, there's another one that seeks to make excuses, possibly because she is "one of us".
Conspiracy? Probably not. Hypocritical? Most definitely.
@Mech610
Agreed. Half the time I don't really look at the comments themselves, only sometimes, because I know for every batshit insane fundy out there, there are other comments saying that all Christians are evil and insulting us just as badly as the fundies insult everyone else.
It is like it has to be one or the other with some people. Either you are a rabid fundie or a wonderful rational athiest, and never the twain shall meet. Kinda disappoints me.
Israel is already a secular, multiethnic state with Jews, Arabs, Druze, Greeks, Armenians and many others who live there. Deal with it.
@Hasan Prishtina
Multi-ethnic, yes. Secular, I have to disagree with you there. For instance, because I was raised as a Reform Jew, in the eyes of the State of Israel, I am not actually a Jew. The reason for this is because the Netanyahu government is effectively in the Ultra-Orthodox' pocket, even if they aren't Orthodox themselves.
I went on the Birthright Israel trip back in 2008, one of the events we went to and the only one that was obligatory was a Q&A with an AIPAC representative who basically just ranted about how Muslims are our enemy and Zionism is awesome.
While I support Israel, and the idea of Israel, I think it needs some serious work before it becomes the wonderful country it has the potential to be.
@Mech610
I meant secular in the sense that Israel has no official religion. It does, however, make life a pain for those who do not belong to Orthodox Judaism or Sunni Islam thanks to rules inherited from the British - who, in turn, inherited them from the Turks - that have been kept in place thanks to Israel's frustrating electoral makeup. I agree with much of what you say and I'm afraid that governments of both left and right have made a rod for their own back by giving the charedi what they want in exchange for support in the Knesset.
I've come across many of this sort of comment before, particularly on a site on which I used to comment. The worst part was the ill-informed Islamophobia cut-and-pasted from Geller, Spencer and Gates of Vienna. I grew tired of pointing out the cherry-picking, the ahistoricity, the caricatures of a monolithic Islam and the sheer ignorance which, as I live in a Muslim country, flew in the face of my daily experience. You are right; Israel is a good country but things could be so much better.
@Hasan Prishtina
Ah okay, thank you for clearing that up. Now I understand what you mean, and I agree with you wholeheartedly.
As a citizen of the United States, I have to deal with rampant Islamophobia, not only from the general public but also from the media. Having grown up in a town with a small, but healthy Muslim community, many of whom I was good friends with, I sympathize with your experience. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of it actually. I'm so sick of it that I ended up cutting ties with one of my uncles after he made some very Islamophobic comments on his Facebook page, which in turn created some fairly unwanted waves in my family.
About the discussion of about all the evil anti-religious people saying bad things about a religion:
Being a Christian/Jews/Muslim isn't the same thing as being black/white/brown/gay/straight/blonde. A religion is a collection of ideas, if you can't make a judgement on a religion you shouldn't be able to make any kind of judgement about any idea including some stuff you really should be able to judge. Yes I said that. No, I'm not sorry at all. But I could give you an asprin for your butthurt.
@UHM
And yet, intentionally seeking to offend or spout hateful comments about a religion or it's adherents is still a form of bigotry. So while you may not be sorry you're a bigot UHM, that still doesn't make you any less of a bigot, and therefore you're no better than the people who's quotes end up on this site.
Congratulations on joining the ranks of bigoted assholes who think themselves better than the bigoted assholes who get quoted here. You will be joining such illustrious names as Brendan Rizzo and D Laurier. Congratulations again! :D
@Mech610:
So as you said: "Congratulations on joining the ranks of bigoted assholes who think themselves better than the bigoted assholes [that write comments here]"
@UHM - A religion is a collection of ideas but people don't really choose a religion the same way they choose a restaurant to dine in. Most people who ascribe to a religion truly believe in at least some of its central tenants/dogmas/beliefs. People's theological beliefs are usually a matter of them being honestly convinced (often a mix of emotional and logical reasons, even for atheists and agnostics). Most people can't simply choose to stop being a Christian or stop being a Hindu or stop being an atheist the same way liberals can't choose to stop being liberal or pizza-lovers can't choose to stop liking pizza.
I suspect this may be a case of the most ultra-right Israel "supporters" not living in Israel and in fact knowing bugger all about it.
Otherwise this Yehuddah person should know how multi ethnic Israel already is.
However, you have no problem living with those same Arabs and blacks in New York, Los Angeles, Boston, etc..............and reclaiming the advantages of a multicultural state.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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