It still amazes me that no one in the South ever stopped and thought, you know, since Lincoln is about the only one hell-bent on this war, and nearly everyone else seems to accept the Constitutional concept of allowing the various sovereign states to express their self-determination and go their separate ways, how about we shoot him instead of tens of thousands of immigrant German farm boys being forced to fight against us? How is assassinating a single dictator somehow considered out of bounds when the alternative is butchering hundreds of thousands of innocents whose only crime was to get drafted into military service?
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I always find it funny when conservatives declare a democratically elected leader a "Dictator" simply because they disagree with him or her. It is in fact people like Day who create war out of a political dispute, and of course the solution they see is to assassinate the opponent in their disagreement, i.e. governing by deadly force. Rather despotic and thus quite ironic.
Also, complete and utter failure in history, particularly considering it was the secessionists who were plotting to assassinate Lincoln, and ultimately did.
You planning on assassinating someone, Teddy?
Makes you wonder how Lincoln got RE-ELECTED HALF WAY THROUGH THE FUCKING WAR, doesn't it?
Yeah, why didn't they hatch some sort of spy plot involving making sure to kill the President, Vice President, and the Secretary of State all at once to ensure the succession of presidency failed?
Oh, wait, they DID. Dumbass. John Wilks Booth wasn't a lone operator. He had 2 co conspirators assigned to the other targets and the plan had been hatched before the south had surrendered. His was just the only part of the plot that went all the way through to success.
This is preceded by a putative speech that Daniel Day-Lewis could have given, in an alternate reality, on accepting his oscar.
It still amazes me that no one anywhere has ever stopped & thought, you know, that Vox Day is a gibbering jackass who is in no way shape or form worth listening to.
Please die as soon as possible. Thank you.
Look, obviously you wanted "Argo" to also get the Best Actor award, but shooting Daniel Day Lewis won't solve anything!
[/hyper-sarcasm] [/topical] X3
While I'm against the assassination part I might agree on one part: maybe Lincoln SHOULD have just left the South alone to become a third world religious theocracy and not drag the rest of the country down with them.
How is assassinating a single dictator somehow considered out of bounds
Because that "dictator" is a democratically elected official and assassinating a president is treason (thus "out of bounds"). If we all took your advice and assassinated every president that we think of as a dictator we'd never have a president because every president has someone who considers him a tyrant.
WOW, Vox Day has now completed all 7 ciricles of profound ignorance and become the the Pope of all things stupid.
He has verified that he knows nothing about
1) Women
So, there we have it. The conclave is over, fire up the stove and put in the bundles that burn with the transparent smoke signal to the masses of the stupid. Vox Day is now now verifibly the stupidest person in the world.
People on both side were falling all over themselves to enlist. History failure.
Equating Lincoln with a dictator. Launguage failure.
Trying to cloak slavery in the guise of state's rights. Ethics failure.
Three strikes. You're out.
I seem to remember a major part in the movement against slavery being taken on by Evangelical Christians. How times change.
Of course, our putative Southerner only mourns the loss of pure, Aryan blood. Somehow I doubt these "immigrant German farm boys" were Catholic.
... nearly everyone else seems to accept the Constitutional concept of allowing the various sovereign states to express their self-determination and go their separate ways ...
There's no such concept. The Constitution only provides for adding states, not removing them.
Has anyone noticed the singular virulence, unity of purpose, and murderousness these formerly disparate reactionaries have been displaying? Should FSTDT now stand for Fascists Say the Darnedest Things?
Re: German farm boys: to wit, the immigrants from the various German-speaking principalities who settled the forming states of the Northwest Ordinance territory, and who, whatever they thought of democracy per se, hated feudalism. To them, keeping human beings in bondage and robbing them of their labor while thoroughly indulging one's own sloth and vice was the epitome of stinkfaul. These "German farm boys" were some of them Protestant but quite a few Catholic.
Note: My eldest great-uncle, Pete Kiene, enlisted in the Union army at the age of fourteen (he was big enough to lie about his age), wound up in Andersonville Prison almost immediately, and miraculously survived, so I know something about these "German farm boys".
No one forced the German immigrants to fight for the Union. Many were Forty-Eighters, who were perfectly happy to go to war. In those days , German were associated with the Left; they wanted freedom and equality. The Forty-Eighters saw the Civil War as a chance to fight for the things they had failed to gain in Europe. In fact, some of them believed that Lincoln was doing too little.
They also disliked the South and its way of life. German immigrants felt Southerners, especially the planters, were lazy. They preferred places like Milwaukee and Chicago. Face it, VP, your precious "Aryans" were never on your side.
1) Lincoln was not a dictator; he was the duly elected President of the United States.
2) Lincoln was not hell-bent on war; the South fired the first shot on Fort Sumter.
3) The conspiracy that assassinated Lincoln was made up of Southern sympathizers, so yes, people in the South did contemplate assassinating the president. They just didn't succeed until AFTER the war was over. Didn't do those immigrant German farm boys any good, did it?
4) Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson, made such a hash of Reconstruction that it can be said the South has never fully recovered from the war. They would have been much better off with Lincoln.
On a personal note, my great-grandfather Arne Wold was an immigrant Norwegian blacksmith who served with the 1st Minnesota VOLUNTEER Infantry at the Battle of Gettysburg. Minnesotans (mostly German and Scandinavian farmers) strongly supported Lincoln during the war.
Stop lying, you shameless idiot.
From beyond the grave, the voices of confederates can be heard:
"Well, goshdarnit. Shoot Lincoln! If only we'd thought of that!"
Heads up, every form of government involve some form of oppression, most of us learn to live with it (oh you know, stuff like paying taxes, tolerating the existence of others, respecting human rights of others, and laws in general).
If everyone thinks like you humanity would be like most animals, solitary creatures.
That's right, just drop everything and go to the woods will you?
Abraham Lincoln a dictator? I'd sooner believe he was a vampire hunter.
Also, apparently the Union army was filled with immigrant German farm boys, and only the South had Real Americans. I'm beginning to think that Vox just uses the word "immigrant" as a placeholder word anytime he's pissed off. (Which is pretty much always.)
@Max W.
Certainly not! Vox hasn't lost it. That would imply that at some point he had it.
Last time I checked Lincoln WAS assassinated. But what do I know, I'm just a Swede. I do know that our king Gustav III was assassinated in 1792, and that one of our first kings, Sverker the Elder, was murdered in 1156. What was your country doing in 1156, Vox?
Voxy, dearie, why are you advocating the murder of a Republican president?
Because that wouldn't have ended the war. That would've strengthened the North's resolve. Maybe things would've turned out better. Maybe the North would've been pissed off enough to confiscate the lazy planter elite's land and distribute it among the slaves.
War isn't chess. It doesn't end when you "check" the king.
@Max W.
"VD has totally fucking lost it."
Well, Wehpudicabok already did the "that would require him to have had it" bit, so I'll simply point out that VD can stand for Venereal Disease (see WW2-era VD prevention posters ), and that untreated syphilis is well known to destroy a victim's brain.
Figures Teddy would out himself as a neoconfederate sooner or later.
@Reynardine: ohhhh yes. They're getting louder, and they're getting braver. They've been doing both for quite a number of years now, but here lately the process seems to have accelerated.
I'm kind of glad to know I'm not the only one getting a bad feeling about this.
Dear Voxie,
The US has never had a dictator, It will have, though, the day you achieve your wish and turn your country into a theocracy.
How....How does that work? Lincoln was the ONLY ONE for the war? Why didn't more states secede then- I mean, if they wanted to, they could have!
I hate Vox... I hate him with every part of my non-existent soul.
Because you know, Congress didn't declare war or anything. It was all Lincoln. So strange that the entire union didn't secede from this dictatorship if everyone disagreed with him! Even stranger that he got re-elected!
Did you seriously ever take a social studies class in your fucking life Vox?
Also they did kill Lincoln and you know what happened? A nation mourned and he became an even stronger anti-slavery symbol in his death.
The power you people think the president wields is insane. It's no wonder you're so afraid of Obama.
Vox Day lies again. Sorry but most of the north and a large section in the South did NOT believe in a right to succession at will. And certainly not because a candidate you didn't like was properly and legally elected President. Most of the soldiers that served in the Northern Armies were volunteers. Draft conscripts were a minority. And may I point out the South was the first to draft / conscript. They translated temporary enlistments into enlistments for the duration of the war and then conscripted.
Oh and Jefferson Davis was as much a "Dictator" has Lincoln. May I point out that the South kept East Tennessee in the Confederacy by Martial law and terror. I could point out mass executions of loyalists in Texas and other acts of repression.
May I point out that the Confederacy did not accept the right to self determination of parts of states and actively tried and succeeding in most places in suppressing local efforts of self determination.
The really funny part is that Lincoln was the closest thing to a Southern apologist in any real power. He wanted to reconcile with the South and make its reintegration into the US as easy as possible. Congress, however, wanted to punish the ever loving shit out of the South for starting the War of Southern Treason.
Lots of the Germans that came over here and fought in our War of Northern Aggression were not German farm boys, they were dedicated revolutionaries that had tried to overthrow their governments in Europe in 1848 and when they failed they escaped to the US.
For more about this read the book "Lincoln's Marxists" which is available on Amazon.com
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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