[A commenter mentioned David Koresh's illegal firearm operations]
Actually, I don’t believe he did. All evidence points to the fact that he ran a tight ship with his gun dealership and kept it above board. I’m fairly certain they went after him primarily because of his religious beliefs, in shameless defiance of the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution.
23 comments
All evidence points to the fact that Jim Jones ran a tight ship and kept it above board. I'm fairly certain they [Leo Ryan, the Guyanese army, the FBI] went after him because of his religious beliefs, in shameless defiance of the 1st Amendment of the US Constitutions and the provisions for freedom of speech of the Constitution of Guyana.
TBF, there is no evidence that ol' Vernon was breaking any laws regarding firearm ownership or dealing, despite government claims at the time. Nor is there any evidence that the Branch Davidians were operating a meth lab, despite government claims at the time. Nor is there any evidence that acts of child molestation took place, despite government claims at the time.
@Pete
There is no evidence that any such evidence existed in the first place, you are assuming guilt - for offenses that occured prior to the initial raid- without any proof. Does the concept of innocence until proven guilty not apply because Koresh is dead ?
@ rubber chicken
Are you aware of the requirements for a search warrant? There must be a minimum of reasonable cause and supporting evidence before one is issued. A full on raid has much stricter requirements before it's given the go ahead.
Additionally, the whole place was rigged to burn. One defending their property is more likely to fortify it than destroy it, unless it's secrets they're protecting instead.
Yeah, because it's far more likely that a nutjob, cult preacher was doing everything to be absolutely legal, that everyone in the government was after him on religious grounds, and all the evil government employees managed to keep their mouths shut about it, than he was a nutter who ran an illegal gun operation.
I don't know everything, but I do know that this occurred at a time when the BATF was getting too big for its britches. Also, the Feds went on the roof. If you live in Texas, and there are strangers on your roof, what do you do? If you're a stereotypical Texan, you shoot them. The whole thing was FUBAR. The Davidians weren't great, but the BATF badly mismanaged the situation.
"resisting arrest or obstructing the execution of a search warrant."
Rubber Chicken. Why do you believe religious affiliations,,,Christian Communes or organizations can refuse the law of country and state?
This isn't the first or the last nuthouse of sheep to be left alone too long until it festered into a death cult. The hands off respect given to these cults has to stop, any group that restricts public access, creates new laws of compliance and controls the earnings of members needs to be investigated.
Yes I mean any group, Islam and Jewish block buyouts and all.
No, it had nothing to do with his religious beliefs. The ATF had severely fucked up at Ruby Ridge and were looking to do a little positive PR, which is why they had a control room set up with PCs, cameras and communications equipment even before they had suited up.
Koresh and the other members of the Branch Davidians were gun collectors, not because they were stockpiling for an apocalypse but because many of them were enthusiasts and they figured out trading weapons at gun shows was a good source of income.
* There was never any proof that Koresh was a child molester. The only person who claimed to have been abused by him was Kiri Jewell and according to her family (some of whom were there at the time), she is lying to get attention.
I'm pretty well informed on the case and the most important thing I've learned about this is that the truth is vastly different from the story the ATF fed to the press and to the government. They may have been a little religiously 'out there', but the Davidians were harmless. There was never a complaint about them threatening anyone or causing any problems. Everyone who was there was living at the compound because they wanted to be, not because of coercion or threats. No one was living in fear of David Koresh and no one was in danger until the ATF showed up and started firing.
@Canadiest
I have never claimed that the Branch Davidians were right in their actions. I don't believe that their religious beliefs gave them any special rights over anyone else.after the fact .
Well, you got me on that RC, yes goverment agencys can be dishonest. The pepper-spray cop was a recent example, although the film of him doing this to seated subdued people had been out early they defended his actions as reasonable. Same with the Rodney King case.
Refusal to allow authorized was the catalyst to this thing going into shitstorm fast. If that could be disproven, the warrants, then the law went too far. But the wall against the world tribes like Koresh's flock can't be let away with standoffs against the system that others would also be under seige for.
I hasten to point out here that the kind of warrant being served on the Branch Davidian compound was a "No Knock" warrant. The ATF was authorized to storm into the place without so much as announcing their presence.
This was also before the ATF uniforms displayed any logo on the front (there were huge white letters "ATF" on the backs of their uniforms only). All the Branch Davidians could see when they looked outside was a whole bunch of guys wearing black and armed with AR-15s who were storming their compound.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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