If Mandela crossed the line into eternity without having ever placed his faith in Christ alone, by grace through faith alone, and been brought to repent and confess his sins before a holy, righteous God, then he will pay the ultimate penalty for his sins in hell forever. He will not be in hell because he was a terrorist, a Marxist, or a Communist. He will be in hell because of his rejection of Jesus Christ.
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He will not be in hell because he was a terrorist, a Marxist, or a Communist. He will be in hell because of his rejection of Jesus Christ.
Because it doesn't matter how many people you killed or what rotten things you've done in your life, all you have to do is say you accept Jesus as your savior on your deathbed and you get an instant ticket to heaven.
In reality, there are worse things than not worshiping Jesus, you know.
by grace through faith alone
So pretty much you can be as much of a dick as you want to be as long as you happened upon the one correct belief among the millions of beliefs out there. Because that's not an exploitable system at all...
And this logic, together with it's negative, that even a Hitler could get into heaven if he or she just converted before dying, was one of the main reasons why I deconverted. And why I today believe that Abrahamic relgions are a sceem to control money, power and people for selfish and egoistic reasons.
In Catholicism, the OP is both heretical and committing a mortal sin by judging who will or won't go to heaven.
Like Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus, we believe that what matters is how well you try to live.
Matthew 5.
6: 'Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy. '
9: 'Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God. '
10: 'Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
The little matter of those criminals crucified beside Jesus. Were they 'believers'? Your 'Saviour' said they will join him in Heaven, did he not...?!
Your argument is invalid, Markie-boy.
by grace through faith alone
This is why the Catholic church made up what they call Purgatory. They say it's a sort of Grand Central between Heaven and Hell where you wait around doing penance for your sins until you get the call for the train to the Pearly Gates.
However fanciful and idiotic it may be, it sure sounds more logical than this 'all or nothing' deal based on faith alone, regardless of how you acted during life.
I accept Little Caesar as my personal pan pizza. Do I get to go to a bistro when I die?
"If you don't want me to laugh at your beliefs, stop believing in such ridiculous shit." - paraphrase, attribution unknown.
"He will not be in hell because he was a terrorist, a Marxist, or a Communist. He will be in hell because of his rejection of Jesus Christ."
Not to mention Mandela was a good man who opposed apartheid and helped destroy it. Which was a good thing.
@freako104
"Not to mention Mandela was a good man who opposed apartheid and helped destroy it. Which was a good thing."
Here's the thing: to Mark's mind, all this doesn't matter. Nothing anyone does matters, except saying the magic words before you die.
@Anon-E-Moose
Spectator I: I think it was "Blessed are the cheesemakers".
Mrs. Gregory: Aha, what's so special about the cheesemakers?
Gregory: Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
Sorry....had to do it.
So don't wind up in hell with the likes of Mandela, Einstein, Sagan, Samuel Clemens and the rest of the "intellectually honest" crowd... you can spend eternity in heaven alongside Joe McCarthy, Dick Nixon, Jack the Ripper, and Hitler!
If Mark Escalera crossed the line into eternity without having ever placed his faith in Allah alone, by grace through faith alone, and been brought to repent and recite the shahada his sins before a holy, righteous God, then he will pay the ultimate penalty for his sins in hell forever. He will not be in hell because he was a infidel, a teabaggist, or a free market worshipper. He will be in hell because of his rejection of Allah.
Uh, Sunni and Shi'a Muslims don't believe in hell, just purgatory and heaven. Some do believe in eternal damnation, but not the mainstream.
As for christainity, sincere contrition can get you into purgatory for Catholics, but since Mandela was Christian, I don't know what you are gibbering about.
This is why I think orthodox and Catholics tend to have it better for encouragement of good works to show faith as a requirement (which Mandela showed in loads) than faith alone. Basically, gotta walk the walk, can't just talk the talk.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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