(on whether priests should legally have to report crimes they were told about in confessionals. Emphasis mine)
If you make priests mandated reporters like that, you'll ensure that, on the same day, everyone stops confessing their crimes to priests. And we lose one of the only forces in our entire society capable of pulling some people back from committing future crimes. I know I used to cut myself for years, and because mandated reporter laws meant that I would literally be arrested, forced to go to a mental hospital, or forced to take psychoactive drugs against my will, (all of which have happened to my friends), if I told my guidance counselor, any of my teachers, a therapist, or pretty much any trustworthy adult or authority figure about it, I just didn't talk to anybody who might have actually been helpful during that whole time period. You know who I did talk to? Lots of people on omegle. Because they couldn't track me down and literally ruin my life. People on omegle didn't have a lot of helpful things to say. I stitched my own leg closed once rather than go to the hospital. That shit hurts. I also could easily have died, because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing when it comes to stitching flesh.
35 comments
He's not actually wrong about mandatory reporting laws having unintended effects. It makes informed people less likely to seek help from the people best suited to provide it.
Eta - Not that I think priests are usually that group but at least it's a potential avenue towards actual help. Many priests genuinely mean well and would point to appropriate help.
To me, it would depend on the crime. Something like the OP - if some priestly mumbo jumbo or church counseling group could help them, fine, no need to report it. Same as things with a "porn addiction", masturbation guilt, etc.
Now - if said person confesses to something serious "Father, I just killed 5 people..." the priest should tell them to turn themselves in and back it up by reporting it. "Or, I just raped a little boy." While the priest may be sympathetic to that, the individual should still be reported.
"And we lose one of the only forces in our entire society capable of pulling some people back from committing future crimes"
Commit a crime, say a few magic words to show how sorry you are, and you are now cleansed of any guilt? Yes that sounds like a force capable of stopping people from future crimes, and not at all like something that would allow people to think that commuting crimes has almost no punishment attached to it
++"I know I used to cut myself for years, and because mandated reporter laws meant that I would literally be arrested, forced to go to a mental hospital, or forced to take psychoactive drugs against my will, (all of which have happened to my friends)"
And the fact that you were carving up your own body like it was the centerpiece of a holiday dinner proves nothing if not that you were clearly in a proper mental state to make rational decisions about your health and medical needs.
++"I stitched my own leg closed once rather than go to the hospital. That shit hurts. I also could easily have died, because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing when it comes to stitching flesh."
Let me just repeat my favorite part of that:
++"I also could easily have died, because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing "
Thank you for preemptively making my own argument for me. Kind of wish you'd said that before I started typing.
That's a valid point about cutting and other self-harm scenarios, but you're comparing apples to oranges where crime is concerned, because self-harm isn't a crime (except suicide, which is still "illegal", IIRC). You can't knowingly leave innocent people in danger, and there's no "help" that cures or prevents sexual predators from committing future crimes. Same with murder theft, etc.
The secrecy of confessional should not be lifted. When a priest is being told about a serious crime he should prescribe turning in to proper secular authorities as part of pennance, under the pain of not receiving forgivness. Indeed, most Churches adopt that precise stance: go, hand yourself over to the police and sin no more.
Actually because of the trust-driven nature of the relationship between someone and their priest and the arguably therapeutic benefits of confession I consider it much the same as the relationship between a psychologist and their patient thus bound by the same strict code of confidentiality. They should be obligated to counsel a criminal to turn themselves in or somebody that's unwell to seek proper psychiatric help but I would argue against mandatory reporting.
That said abuse of their position earns them an extra large helping of wrath and a one-way trip to my bad side from which there is little hope of forgiveness and I firmly believe it should carry an equally dire legal reprisal. I would like to see some type of official certification that a priest has undergone a rigorous education in human rights and taken a legally binding oath not to cause harm as doctors do before they can accept confessional duty but I don't know how feasible that might be.
"everyone stops confessing their crimes to priests. And we lose one of the only forces in our entire society capable of pulling some people back from committing future crimes. I know I used to cut myself for years, and because mandated reporter laws meant that I would literally be arrested, forced to go to a mental hospital, or forced to take psychoactive drugs against my will"
Or, you can... y'know... possess the Self Control to stop thinking in such a way as to make yourself come to such a pass.
Just ask Kevin Day and John McVicar.
The former a former member of the neo-Nazi BNP who turned left -wing , and is now a respected comedy writer for TV & radio. The latter a violent criminal in & out of jail for much of his life, until he decided to get himself an education whilst in prison, and earned a degree during his incarceration. He is now one of the UK's most eminent Professors of Sociology.
They changed themselves. Completely. So what's your excuse, Miss Tearyous Strange One?
image
Stop whining, emo kid.
@OP: Shut the fuck up, you twat. Now, I can believe you were a cutter, and can sympathize with you for that. However, I know that none of your friends were arrested for cutting themselves. At least in the US, self-harm is completely legal.
@Passerby : Actually, that's a very good idea.
I'm surprised that the person that you spoke to on Omegle wasn't just a clip of someone fapping.
"That shit hurts. I also could easily have died, because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing when it comes to stitching flesh."
The hospital was probably the right place for you then. Along with doctors, another person you should probably go see is your local psychiatrist. They may be able to help, and are a lot more well trained and regulated over these issues than any priest, no matter how well meaning they are.
@Anon-e-moose
Moose-sama, I want to like you. But this time you were kind of an asshat.
Mental illness that prompts self-harm is not to be responded to with "why can't you make yourself get better, you don't have real problems".
The mafia here in the US were a good example f this coinfess and keep sining s htick. They remainbed good catho,ics while running their muderous crimnal empires.
I can see Al Capone's priest: "I wish Al would quit the bootleghing and muder. Next ti.e he's in the booth, it' ll been 10 Hail Marys"
Demon Duck of Doom-- actually, it will lead to an involuntary psychiatric hold. Not technically an arrest, but since the cops come and pick you up and you are held against your will it's basically the same thing.
And since psych holds can cause you to miss work, lose your job, and put you on the police radar so they never ever trust anything you say again, there are definite consequences.
@tfaddict, Demon Duck of Doom
Well shucks, I'm flattered.
Dude, I'm a cutter too. Just like you, I suffer from a brain malfunction and the only way of releasing the pressure inside my head is to cut. So I'm saying this with a great deal of sympathy: Go talk to your doctor, any doctor. And when they give you meds, take them. Seriously, meds can work wonders these days.
We need fewer counselors to be mandatory reporters, not more! Yes, this is unfair, but it's unfair to secular psychologists.
In a situation where I think I am liable to harm people and am willing to be talked out of it but do not wish to go to jail, it is in society's best interests to let someone talk me out of it.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/v2/prices_or_bindings/
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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