The Bible tells us that all people have a sin-nature. We don’t want the Bible to be true, and so we argue, and we get a second opinion that is more conducive to the way we want to live. But that doesn’t change the facts. That the issue is truly settled is evidence by the lack of any cogent counter-argument. Namely, non-Christian worldviews simply cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction. And some of the more honest philosophers have admitted this
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Namely, non-Christian worldviews simply cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction.
And some of the more honest philosophers have admitted this.
Why do these people keep confusing scientific laws with legal laws. Legal laws are prescriptive, scientific laws are descriptive. Scientific laws don't hold true in every possible scenario, they only describe how something acts under specific conditions. Change the conditions and it can act completely differently. The law of gravity works well to describe how gravity works at our level, but falls apart at the quantum level.
Could you tell me where the babble mentions "sin-nature."
Can you prove the babble true without reference to the babble (you know, the babble is true because it says it's true)?
You might have trouble proving the existence of logic or morality without reference to the babble, but this is merely an argument by ignorance (I don't know, therefore god). There are many happy to show you how logic and morality exist without the babble.
And you are a moron.
"Namely, non-Christian worldviews simply cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction."
Allah is responsible for all of these things you claim I cannot account for. Praise be to Mohammed who, through Allah's will, has revealed this to us. Which means Christianity is a lie. How do I know this ? The Koran tells me so.
(See how that works Jason? My story is better than your story. Just ask any Islamist.)
non-Christian worldviews simply cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction.
STOP LYING!
And some of the more honest philosophers have admitted this
You don't mean "honest", you mean "the ones that agree with me".
Yes Jason, we can. Logic is accepted because it is a useful method of examining reality, and the predictions made by the laws of logic usually add up. In any case, Christianity doesn't prove goddidit, it merely asserts such an answer.
@Raspberry ,
But Islam is absurd!.... somehow! Christianity is not absurd because if you don't determine to buy into it totally you are absurd because Jesus said so!
-any presuppositionalist hack
"Namely, non-Christian worldviews simply cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction."
They can, so does that mean you'll shut up forever now? Please?
They can and they have endlessly. You know as much. The only thing truly inexplicable is your tragic stupidity and desperate clinging to willful ignorance.
Furthermore, you don't get to demand cogent coutner-arguments when your own argument relies on complete nonsense to "function".
Namely, non-Christian worldviews simply cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction.
Aristotle was a Christian? Who knew?
"The Bible tells us that all people have a sin-nature."
Yes, of course, the first step in selling you a cure you have no need for (Jesus) is convincing you that you're sick (sinful, wicked, and in need of redemption). This cure (of course) can only be provided by what they're peddling (Jesus). Once you're on the hook, they can control what you do, extort money from you, threaten you with abandonment, and continue to tell you every chance they get just how sinful, wicked, and in need of redemption you are. Also, don't bother to think that your sickness might get better and you might someday not need this "cure"-they go on to describe it as inherent, inherited, "original", or "in man's nature". How convenient for them.
And then they tell you how you "cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction without Jesus", so you better be a good Christian and continue doing what they say and continue giving them money lest you become an unlawful, illogical, immoral heathen.
No cogent counter-arguments? Boy, is he wrong! I've just finished a pile of books by Robert Price, Acharya S, John Loftus and Richard Carrier. They have their weaknesses, but even if they are only half right Christianity is in deep trouble. But honest folk have known that since Charlie boarded The Beagle.
non-Christian worldviews simply cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction.
Have you actually studied anything about logic or morality? Multiple civilizations have been built without your religion, Jason.
I don't care what the Bible says. What does reality say? Oh, it says that if we care about someone's well-being, it's more likely that they'll care about our well-being, and if we're an asshole toward them, it's more likely that they'll be an asshole toward us. Gee, what a concept.
I don't give a shit if the Bible is true or not. It's self-contradictory and also contradicts what we know through science, which makes it not true.
Jason Lisle, you're a dipshit. That's all I have to say.
@Tony
"Lisle claims Islam cannot account for morality because allah doesn't punish all sinners,while because jesus got killed by god all sins are punished so according to his logic only chirsianity can account for "justice" "
Lisle is using his false gods supposed idea of what sin is and how it should be punished as a basis to judge Allah by. Allah alone decides what is sinful and what is not. Allah alone decides what is moral and what is not. This is the very basis of divine "justice" and cannot be in error. Allah alone decides how to punish accordingly therefore all is accounted for in His will.
As the Koran shows us, Christianity is false so it follows that Jason's claims are not only false but deeply misguided. There will be no virgins for Jason.
Allah said it, I believe it, that settles it.
non-Christian worldviews simply cannot account for the existence and properties of laws of logic, morality, or induction.
Your god can and has changed the properties of those named above... so a Christian worldview explicitly contradicts them.
The Bible tells us
Also sprach Zarathustra.
Again, there are probably even more philosophies at odds with each other than religions and I'm getting really tired of this Fundamentalist Christian tact of pretending the title philosophy carries any more weight than the most primitive of religions.
They're both a collection of ideals with various levels of truth to them and not one stands because not one provides the answers.
What these proponents of philosophy supporting Christianity omit every time is that only a minor few spring off, connect to or relate to Christianity and a more relate more to Hinduism or Buddism.
Non-Christian worldviews are the dominate ones, even America, the most Christian of all the west is dominated by secular morals and laws. There's an obvious difference, Christian theocracies are ALWAYS horrible backward shitholes of suffering and injustice.
Ah yes, the principles of logic, so clearly stated in the book of Codswallop, 7:13, the parable of Jason Lisle pulling shit out of his arse and calling it roses.
"The Bible tells us that all people have a sin-nature."
The Bible tells us that the 'Rapture' will happen; forget that there's tens of thousands of denominations of Christianity & thus differences of 'belie fs' opinion(s), and remember that magic word: 'Faith'. If you dared argue that doctrine, those on the Ruptured Retards forum would denounce you as a heretic, a nonbeliever & not a True Christain(TM) because their issue is settled by the lack of a counter-argument, ergo you are forced to agree with them.
The last part of the end credits of the Christian film "Left Behind":
image
The 'Rapture' is based on Biblical doctrine. And as the above therefore admits that the event known as the 'Rapture' is fictional, therefore the Bible is fictional too, ergo 'Sin' doesn't exist. Thank you and goodnight. [/hyper-smartarse]
"And some of the more honest philosophers have admitted this"
In that case Jase LIEsle, you wouldn't last five seconds with Christopher Lee. Because it's said that if you can argue Nietzsche sufficiently well with him, you'll have a friend for life.
@Antbrain
http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=104891&Page=2#1734844
http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=104891&Page=2#1734895
No cogent answer, Antbrain? Boy, are you a paedophile !
"The Bible tells us that all people have a sin-nature."
You're speaking as if the bible were known to possess some inherent authority, jason--whatever for?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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