I thought that the conquests made by Cortez and Pizarro were great achievements, not something wrong.
And what's so evil about the First Crusade?
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This is about the past, so my crystal ball isn't appropriate. Let me read the bones. (My, that's a lot of bones...)
Ah! Something about unnecessary slaughter, rape and enslavement. And is that ever wrong?
Hmm... Well, there's enslavement, mass slaughter, rape, pillage, looting, forcing your religion down people's throats at swordpoint... Nah, can't think of anything evil there.
Besides the fact that it was an attempt at genocide over a piece of fairly useless real estate?
Besides the fact that it was attempted genocide in the name of god?
Besides the fact that it established an atmosphere of fear, hatred, mistrust, and violence that is still going on today?
Besides the fact that it's essential motivation was greed and misdirection?
I would go on, but why bother.
Yeah, they were all great except for the unnecessary slaughter, destruction of cultures and rampent looting.
I do get a little exercised over the damnation of the crusades by Muslims while the ignore the fact that Islam spread largely through conquest, but that doesn't mean either one was right.
Granted, the explorations of the Americas were great accomplishments in the logistical sense; socially, however, not so much.
My grade-school education sanitized the accounts of European explorers in the New World; there was no mention of any enslavement or killing of Indians -- you'd have thought that the Europeans were received as new friends by people who were happy that they'd come.
It was not until high school that I started to learn a little about the negative side -- and even then only a little. Most of what I learned of the truth of the matter came in college (and afterward from independent sources).
I suspect that DeathEater88 simply never got anything past the sanitized versions of things; either that, or he's been conditioned to think of non-Christian cultures (e.g., American Indians, Muslims) as subhuman degenerates, not as people. I can think of no other reason that he would express things this way.
~David D.G.
That they killed people and imposed their faith for their convenience when Jesus told two of his disciples who proposed to kill everybody in a village, because they didn't want to receive Jesus, not to?, and what did he say to Peter, about the one who lives by the sword?
Hi!
I am DeathEater88 (I can prove this if needed) and I saw that you made offensive comments regarding me.
I don't think you have the right to consider me stupid or uneducated simply because I have a different opinion on European colonization of the Americas.
I recognize that there were some nasty episodes, but on the whole, I maintain my opinion that the discoveries were a positive thing. Without Spanish conquerors, South and Central America would still be in the stone age today.
I think I should add that I am not a Christian fundamentalist, I am an Atheist.
That's all I wanted to say and please excuse any language mistakes I may have made, as English is not my native language.
@Cristian: Let's see, on average, indigenous tribes are considered to be second-class citizens in their own countries, have poorer housing and income, and are minorities in their own lands. How exactly did Cortez and Pizarro help them escape "the stone age" that they were in? Does having fewer immunities to diseases and less developed weapons justify being taken advantage of, slaughtered, raped, enslaved, and dehumanized? If something like that happened to your ancestors, would you consider it to be justified as long as the conquerors "civilized" them? Maybe it's just me, but I consider the status of being civilized to have far more to do with compassion, respect, courtesy, and understanding than with fancy clothes and shiny weapons.
The civilizations that existed in the Americas were much more sophisticated than european historians say.
The followers of God the Criminal Idiot were content to engulf and devour, as any more mature or diplomatic alternative to meeting new people was unknown to them.
The first Crusade was about as legit as any invasion could be....
I thought that the conquests made by Cortez and Pizarro were great achievements, not something wrong.
Don't know too much about Cortez, but Pizarro basically brought down the Incas. He killed the man the Incas believed was their god through deception and lies. If that's a "great achievement", I hope we never have another one.
And what's so evil about the First Crusade?
Yes, what's so evil about murder, rape, pillaging, and swordpoint conversion?
So, conquering vast stretches of land by killing, mistreating, and oppressing the natives is acceptable if it leads to a better economic status a century or three later? Well, ya learn something new everyday...
Cortez was a fucking sociopath who wanted only gold and murdered anyone in his path.
The first Crusade indiscriminately massacred muslims, jews, and christians in conquered cities.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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