craneflight #fundie

craneflight #fundie teens-4-christ.org

...we probably wouldn't exist. Think about it. If there was no God...what would be the point of developing the wide variety of emotions that humans have? I mean, our emotions, a lot of times, don't lend well to the survival of our species. People are thinkers that can choose not to have children, have only a few, take a few years break in between having children, etc.

An animal that is able to reproduce will always do so if given the chance - even if reproduction always results in death for the mother, father, or both!

If humans thought like animals, we'd all have a baby every year with the first available person regardless of circumstances because survival of the species is most important.

Of course God commands us to be fruitful and multiply but...well, if our complex emotions actually decrease our productivity as a species...what's the point? To make us closer to God! God gave us the gift of emotion (not that animals don't have emotions, but not like humans of course) to make humans - made in His image - distinctly separate from the other creatures of the Earth. That's proof enough of God for me! PTL!

28 comments

old comment by Mike

we probably wouldn't exist.

We wouldn't exist if evolution was real? WTF?

Think about it. If there was no God...what would be the point of developing the wide variety of emotions that humans have?

Trade, communication?

I mean, our emotions, a lot of times, don't lend well to the survival of our species.

Yes they do. It's called writing and speeches.

An animal that is able to reproduce will always do so if given the chance

Not always. We have spay and neutering, diseases, etc.

- even if reproduction always results in death for the mother, father, or both!

YAY! DEATH!

If humans thought like animals, we'd all have a baby every year with the first available person regardless of circumstances because survival of the species is most important.

Evolution doesn't work that way.

Of course God commands us to be fruitful and multiply but...well, if our complex emotions actually decrease our productivity as a species...

So emotions don't help... but they do... wut?

what's the point? To make us closer to God! God gave us the gift of emotion (not that animals don't have emotions, but not like humans of course)

Yeah, except when dogs whine for their masters or when they help in pain.

to make humans - made in His image - distinctly separate from the other creatures of the Earth. That's proof enough of God for me! PTL!

Loser.

old comment by Eden

Wrong from a sociobiological perspective.

It is our emotion that makes us predestined to live together in large groups. Better communication between membrs of a group (and that´s what emotions are, a means of communication) leads to better cooperation and therefore makes the group more competitive. Therefore emotions make a lot of sense from an evolutionary standpoint.

You are also wrong about other animals not being able to decide against constant having kids. Just take for example the Bonobos, which are
1. a chimpanzee species that have sex for fun (and we talk about homosexual sex, heteroexual sex and even sex with the involvements of children).
2. a matriarchate
3. the most peaceful chimpanzee species. Conflicts normally are (very successfully) solved by sex
4. the only or at least one of the only species that have prostitution. Female bonobos would allow males to mount them if given foodstuff for it.
So they´re well capable of having sex without having kids as well.
I assume because of all this fundies must hate bonobos :D

old comment by Microraptor

1) There is no point of "developing the wide variety of emotions that humans have". Emotion is a byproduct of our intelligence and our roles as social creatures.

2) Animals (generally) don't reproduce constantly. They generally have a "heat" cycle, and even when females have their choice of males, will often reject their sexual advances until the time is right.

3) If humans "thought" like animals, we'd want to mate with partners that look fit and healthy and able to raise a good litter of offspring -- Ohsheet. Humans do that, too!

4) Humans have the ability to reason. This is yet another byproduct of intelligence. Intelligence is easily explained by non-theistic processes.

Overall grade:
Go back to school.

old comment by JESUS PLEASE COME SOON!

Many mammals have crude emotions as well. All primates have fairly well developed emotions, with Bonobos and Chimps in particular showing emotions similar to those of human children. Even the lower mammals appear to experience enjoyment, dislike and fear in certain situations, which is an indication that emotions are what developed from the instincts of the more primitive animals.

Overall, our emotions really aren't that complex. It still boils down to enjoyment (happiness, love, etc.), dislike (anger, frustration, etc.) and fear (nervousness, anxiety, etc.), in different levels of intensity. Instinct and self preservation in their evolved forms.

old comment by Chamale

One reason women are often more reluctant to have sex than men is that before there was modern medical care, a woman's chances of dying while giving birth were as high as 40% at some points. The chance of maternal death in childbirth in ancient times was normally 1 to 2%. Also, that's to say nothing of how vulnerable pregnant women would be to predators, were it not for social behaviour.
So women would instinctively not want to be impregnated by an unworthy mate, as they would increase their risk of dying substantially. Interestingly, the horrid inefficiency of childbirth is well-explained by evolution, while the Bible just has something about how God was pissed at Eve and took revenge on every woman, ever.

(Did the Virgin Mary have pain in the birth of Jesus? I couldn't find anything about the on Wikipedia, though I didn't look very hard).

old comment by Allegory for Jesus

SOCIAL. ANIMALS.

Also: Humans usually don't breed like rabbits because there is no need to. Some among us still do, and, before the comforts of the Industrial revolution came along, we still did. Emotion has very little to do with why we don't breed, it is actually an logic and possessing methods to limit our reproductive capacity. If we gave birth to too many children, the ability to care for and provide for each one is decreased, so it is better to have a few children that effectively replace you in the population, rather than having scores of children, who are almost guaranteed to live if your finances aren't completely drained in caring for them.

old comment by libber

"If humans thought like animals, we'd all have a baby every year with the first available person regardless of circumstances because survival of the species is most important."

Wait...I'm sorry, but I see more religious people in my community get married off at the first chance to the first decent religious person they find, and they start popping out babies before they've been married a year. I know Catholics and Mormons with 14+ children, from one woman and her husband! Some are very happy with their marriages all their lives, some are very unhappy because they got married before they understood themselves and knew the other person well enough to know their true character, just because their religious culture said marriage and starting a family was all-important. Non-religious people tend to want to remain childless, or at least limit the amount of children they have.

Confusion of emotions and personal life choices. Denial of our natural origins. Pseudoscientific fallacy of comparing humans to other animals for natural selection, Social Darwinism, but at the same time it contradicts this just after with another conflicting argument, evidence of more confusion. Classic "made in God's image" to deny the fact that our deities have human attributes because humans imagine/create them.

What really distinguishes us is our brain. It comes with benefits as well as drawbacks, we can alienate ourselves, but are also capable of survival and decisions to a point where natural selection no longer applies to us. The evidence that we are still animals, that are great apes, that we are mammals, is still overwhelming. Our condition also comes with challenges, our large head makes birth difficult and sometimes deadly. Some of our back problems are also due to bipedality. Some of our other problems are shared with other mammals. It is all evidence that there was no direct design involved.

Because our brains can also trick us and because we are conscious of our condition such as mortality, we tend to fantasize a lot. We also develop social systems. We communicate and transmit information, true and false. Religion is a result of all of that. Delusions, fantasies, needs, culture, organization, social control.

If your deity exists, what about other and older deities? Considering that yours is the result of your particular culture as well as your personal fantasies, because everybody adapts their "view of god", there could be no other way because imaginary beings cannot teach us. Similarly, our afterlife fantasies vary a lot depending on our environment and culture. For some hunter gatherers, the afterlife is a jungle with ancestors. For animists and pantheists, the "conception of god" is very different than for Christians. The conception varies between Judaism and Christianity and also within Christianity, for instance in Gnostic Christians. The reason is just that it's our own human concepts. Some people understand this and are agnostic or atheist.

Due to evolution, we also have layers of sometimes conflicting systems. Our immune system is primitive and can lead to survival as well as death, when it overreacts. Our brain allows us to go beyond with medicine but also with other behaviors, hygiene, adaptations when sick, etc. Emotions permit a primitive communication and alert system and positive emotions are also a driving force, in all animals there's even some level of empathy. But humans can also study emotions and psychology and direct their lives and develop communication beyond the emotional immediate, up to the institutional... We have the primitive strong sex drive of other animals, but sophisticate our desires and rituals and social structures beyond all others. We even have fashions... We know of instinctive territorial and jealousy emotions but can also mature beyond those and people who don't can even become misfits in a more complex society.

"If evolution were real, that would mean God was a liar."

Misled mortals making misled imaginary dieties explain this. If evolution were not real, this would mean that all of the strong evidence is lying. This would lead to a deceptive creator who made the world in one way to then lie about how it's made to confuse humans and punish them for discovering the actual makeup? We didn't invent evolution, but we develop working explanations for what we found.

We also discovered the very conflicting and ignorant origin myths of ancient humans and can analyse these. Young Earth Creationism is a modern pseudoscientific doctrine from a twisted rendition of discoveries about the world as well as harmonies from specific nationalist myths assembled together. The ideology not only conflicts with evolution but also with the age of the earth which can be estimated using very strong and reliable science, including things in nature that were determined to be constants.

For that reason, you have an endless growing firehose of ridiculous false reactionary arguments whenever you learn of something that conflicts with the doctrine. Many Christians aren't even in that nonsense and accept the findings of science.

Considering all of this, it's important to determine why those who mislead you do, instead of deflecting it with doubt and uncertainty propaganda attacking all of knowledge with grandiose conspiracy theories demonizing society.