Bro. Randy #fundie

Bro. Randy #fundie teens-4-christ.org

The United Nations is an anti-Hebrew, anti-Christian organization. Every aspect and action of this organization is to orchestrate the erradication of the Jewish and Christian people.

This is an organization that is equally anti-American (although they certainly love the American DOLLAR). Those of you who are of voting age should make sure that you cast your vote, and you cast your vote for those who will represent Jesus and the Word of God!

53 comments

old comment by Wow

Wow, you could probably word that better: there is a difference between an anti-Israel/anti-Sionist current in the UN and "the UN is anti-Jewish". Anti-Sionism =/= antisemitism. As for the UN criticizing Israel, well, Israel has been providing blame material quite liberally ever since its creation...
No, I worded it exactly as I intended. The type of anti-Zionism that is thrown about the U.N. IS anti-Jewish (granted, there are anti-Zionist Jews, but their form of the argument is not typically that the Jews have no right to sovereignty). Most of the representative countries that promote anti-Zionism in the GA believe that Israel has no right to exist. Imagine any other nation suggesting that Jordan, or Iraq, or Pakistan have no right to exist. After all, they were all carved out of former British Empire possessions, just as Israel was. You have dozens of Arab and Muslim countries, many of which officially subsidize and promote books like The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion and various slander pieces on Israelis and Jews in general. It's about more than just Israelis. It's about Jews. In addition, I'm not going to take the position that everything that Israel has done has been just. But what country hasn't done shitty things? You don't hear such condemnations of the way that Muslim countries treat their women, or the Jewish populations in their own borders. You don't hear constant bitching about how France and Germany treat their permanent underclass of native Algerians and Turks. You don't hear the UN bitching about the cross-border kidnappings and terrorist suicide bombers and such that the Israelis have to endure from Hezbollah. You don't hear about the Six-Day War. All you hear about is how Israel is so fundamentally evil that they should be wiped off the map. I'm not going to get into Israel-Palestine politics with you. Yeah, there are assholes on both sides. But Israel has a right to exist, and a right to sovereignty, and the arguments from its Arab neighbors that it does not are overwhelmingly anti-Jewish.

old comment by Adrian

Well, Wow, I have to say that I disagree with you.
While I can certainly understand and empathize with the Jews wanting a place where they'd be safe after WW2, the idea that they have more right to a piece of land than the current inhabitants just because an old fairy tale-slash-propaganda piece says Gawd told them it was theirs is not something I can accept (not to mention that according to babblical texts they quite happily genocided the inhabitants of said Gawd-given land, not really helpful to establish a legitimacy). Presumably having had ancestors that had to flee this region in the early first millenia or even earlier is no excuse for stealing the houses of people who have been living there for several generation. Then you have the matter of them taking (by force) more than the share of the land the UN intended to give them, and continuing to expanding for quite a time after that, and generally causing instability, unrest and even several wars in the region, and committing quite a few atrocities. Between that and the very notion of a country based on a religion/ethnicity, one could draw some parallels with the Jews' former persecutors without really Godwinning... And on a side note, I understand that there is also the matter of the ressources/population equation that makes Israel heavily dependant on foreign support (current Israel population: 7 millions; pre-Israel creation Palestine: about 1 million IIRC), which doesn't really strike me as a bright idea. As for the UN, you have yet to demonstrate that it is anti-Israel as a whole. As far as I can tell there are influential anti and pro-Israel currents, which, combined with the constant eruptions of violence in and around Israel, explains why it is such a constant subject in UN discussions. Finally, for your claims that the muslim anti-Zionism is antisemitic, well, I have to admit that it is quite probable that, after half a century of conflict, opposition to Israel grew into a hate of all Jews for many Muslims. Is it really all that surprising? It isn't difficult to understand that seeing a country with a majorly Muslim population dismembered to create a nation based on another religion wouldn't sit well with Muslims, is it? In fact I suspect that the presence of such an open wound was an important factor in the rise of Muslim fundamentalism...

old comment by Wow

"But what country hasn't done shitty things?"
Wow - most people learn by around age 10 that just because other people do shitty things is not an excuse to do it yourself. Could you apply such an argument to rape, arson or murder? Loads of people do that, so why shouldn't we? I've learned that too. Do I strike you as an idiot? That being said, the UN paints an extraordinarily one-sided picture of Israel's conflict with anyone. You'd think, to hear it, that Israelis are vampires, coming out at night to drain the blood from good Arab virgins. The Israelis are a nation, just like any other nation represented at the UN. They do good things; they also do shameful things. I don't condone the actions of Israeli settlers who try their best to antagonize. I don't condone internment camps or lockdowns of the Arab neighborhoods. I don't condone a lot of things that elements of the Israeli government have from time to time done. But that doesn't mean that they are unworthy of existence, any more than the British or the Americans or the Pakistanis or the Turks or the Chinese. Yet you don't hear dozens of countries calling for the extermination of those nations. With the exception of America, at times. The fact that other countries commit atrocities and otherwise act badly doesn't make Israeli actions alright - I meant the statement to provide some perspective on the anti-Zionist histrionics.

old comment by Wow

Adrian,
You're welcome to disagree with me. That's what makes Western civilization great! That being said, a few comments. Then you have the matter of them taking (by force) more than the share of the land the UN intended to give them, and continuing to expanding for quite a time after that, and generally causing instability, unrest and even several wars in the region, and committing quite a few atrocities. I assume you're referring to the Six Day War. Three of Israel's neighbors ganged up on it, calling for the nation of Israel to be wiped off the map. Israel defended, and occupied some of the surrounding land, providing a barrier between enemy armies and the peaceful Jewish settlements within Israel's borders. I'm sorry, I fail to see the problem with that. If Jordan didn't want to lose Jerusalem, then Jordan could have held off from attacking. Between that and the very notion of a country based on a religion/ethnicity, one could draw some parallels with the Jews' former persecutors without really Godwinning Get real. Only a complete fool equates Israel with the Nazis. Assuming you're serious - where are the gas chambers? Where are the railroads set up to systematically displace and exterminate people of Arab descent? Did you know that Israel has Arab citizens, who even vote in the Knesset? What nation, Allied or Axis, ever dropped leaflets over European towns before they were bombed, warning residents of the danger and asking them to leave to preserve innocent human life? And yet the Israelis went to the time and expense to do just that during the recent Lebanon war. Israel = Third Reich Germany? Please. well, I have to admit that it is quite probable that, after half a century of conflict, opposition to Israel grew into a hate of all Jews for many Muslims. Is it really all that surprising? You think it started with the founding of Israel? 1929 Hebron Massacre The Arabs were not kind to the Jews, even before the Jews took control of a small strip of desert on the Mediterranean. Israel did not cause Arab Jew-hate. It was already there.

old comment by Razark

Ya'll know what? I'm sick of the entire middle east situation. I think that everyone should stop supplying weapons, money, etc. and let them fight it out once and for all. The folks over there are going to do it anyway. Sure, Israel is outnumbered, but they have nukes. We can even claim that the winner has the better god. Then we will all know which god is better, and we can all get back to not believing in it.
Seriously, if the fight is over who gets to live on the land, someone just needs to go drop some leaflets saying "move out", the UN can select a piece of land for each side, thousands of miles away from each other, and then we can plow the whole damn region into the Mediterranian Ocean and they can leave the rest of us alone.

old comment by Adrian

Adrian,
You're welcome to disagree with me. That's what makes Western civilization great! Indeed, and while I think we'll have to agree to disagree, I'm happy that we manage to do so civilly. I assume you're referring to the Six Day War. Three of Israel's neighbors ganged up on it, calling for the nation of Israel to be wiped off the map. Israel defended, and occupied some of the surrounding land, providing a barrier between enemy armies and the peaceful Jewish settlements within Israel's borders. I'm sorry, I fail to see the problem with that. If Jordan didn't want to lose Jerusalem, then Jordan could have held off from attacking. I was thinking mostly of the way Israel took more that was intended in the UN Partition Plan during the 1948 War of Independence and Arab-Israeli War. While I'm a bit fuzzy on the details (high-school history was 10 years ago ^^"), I'm aware that Israel wasn't always the aggressor in subsequent wars. I can see the logic annexing additional territory, particularly if it is to establish safety zones, but it doesn't mean I have to like it/find it a good idea/ethically defensible. Similarly, I can understand Israel's militaristic/aggressive stance, but I can't support it. In fact I could sum my point of view by saying that the creation of Israel was a Bad Idea and all the problems that followed were simply the logical result of realizing that idea. Get real. Only a complete fool equates Israel with the Nazis. Assuming you're serious - where are the gas chambers? Where are the railroads set up to systematically displace and exterminate people of Arab descent? Did you know that Israel has Arab citizens, who even vote in the Knesset? What nation, Allied or Axis, ever dropped leaflets over European towns before they were bombed, warning residents of the danger and asking them to leave to preserve innocent human life? And yet the Israelis went to the time and expense to do just that during the recent Lebanon war. Israel = Third Reich Germany? Please. Of course, I'm well aware that they are on a different scale and that Israel certainly isn't conducing systematic genocide, but what I'm arguing is that the underlying idea isn't all that different: one nation for a "chosen race", and I find that a terrible idea to build a nation upon. And you acknowleged the existence of for example "internment camps or lockdowns of the Arab neighborhoods" yourself. I know that there are Arab citizens in Israel, but from what I understand they tend to get harassed and treated like second class citizens (see here for example). You think it started with the founding of Israel? 1929 Hebron Massacre The Arabs were not kind to the Jews, even before the Jews took control of a small strip of desert on the Mediterranean. Israel did not cause Arab Jew-hate. It was already there. My understanding is that there were indeed already tensions between the Arab and Jewish population of Palestine, mainly because of a movement of systematic Jewish immigration to Palestine, not unlike the illegal immigration phenomenon in the USA, but made worse by the Jewish immigrants/Palestinian population rapport and the declared intention of many of said immigrants to establish a Jewish nation. To quote Wikipedia , "the Jews in the region increased from 11% of the population in 1922 to 30% by 1940". Things like a British census listing the Arabs as "non-Jewish Palestinians" when Jews were still a minority probably didn't help either. Is it any wonder Arab Palestinians felt invaded? And then, as a result of said tensions, Jewish militias were created, part of them degenerating into terrorist groups (see Irgun and Lehi). So there was indeed already hate between Palestinians and Jews before the creation of Israel, and probably little sympathy for Jewish settlers in the neighbouring Arab countries, but I'm not sure the Arab/Muslim world at large was actively hating Jews at the time.

old comment by Maronan

To what extent is this illegal manipulation of voters?
Probably not at all, since he's not asking them to vote for a specific party. Of course, based on his description, there isn't anyone to vote for, at least not in the major parties. No one represents Jesus; the Republicans are quick to violate his principles in his name and the Democrats are too cowardly to do anything about it. Since Jesus was a socialist, you'd need to go to Europe in order to find someone willing to advocate for the principles he advocated for. The Word of God part is harder, since no such thing exists. I guess the best I can do is ignore that part, focus on the first, move to Europe, and vote socialistic.

Bro. Randy #fundie teens-4-christ.org

53 comments

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