I believe being a rape victim is a sin, even though it is not the victims fault.
Being raped is not the victims sin, but the sin of the rapist.
No longer being a virgin before marriage is a sin.
124 comments
I believe being full of shit is a sin.
Being full of shit is completely your fault.
No longer having the sense to forgive someone for something they didn't do is being full of shit.
Mistaken?
I'd certainly say so.
Knotilus , I took your advice and read it all. Now I need to scrub my eyes with bleach. This little gem will probably turn up here later, but in case it doesn't:
JAG:"I do not believe the woman being ravaged is the sinful part on her side. I believe her cowardice is."
and he backs it up with:
Revelation 21:8cowardly , the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liarstheir place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur."
I believe being a rape victim is a sin, even though it is not the victims fault.
Being raped is not the victims sin, but the sin of the rapist.
No longer being a virgin before marriage is a sin.
I can sort of understand the logic for part of this - if you do something that is defined as sinful, even against your will, then you have technically sinned. (In the interest of brevity, we'll skip over the questionable assertion that sex before marriage is sinful - unlike rape, it's not obviously a crime or detrimental to individuals or society in any way) Where the whole business gets sickening and basically insane is the implicit assumption that you should still be condemned for technically sinning even if it's completely against your will.
The real problem with these pathetic simpletons' ideas is that the very concept of sin has never actually been defined, except by example, and thus it's impossible to determine whether the motive or intention behind a particular action disqualifies it from being "sinful".
It's sort of like the distinction between premeditated murder and accidental manslaughter. Both clearly go against the whole "thou shalt not kill" deal and thus, by breaking god's word, are "sin" (again, we'll gloss over the fact that "sin" is never actually explicitly stated in any text to just be anything that goes against god's word; everyone just assumes that it is) yet only the former is generally held to be reprehensible; the latter is usually not (and anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that even this second level of differentiation isn't enough for all situations - what about accidental manslaughter as a result of callous negligence, for example?).
Since the average religious nut insists on exclusively using such a primitive list of crude, baldly stated rules with no rational derivation or justification, they not only have no method to differentiate between willful and unwilling "sin" as we see here, they also ensure they have no capability of ever formulating more sophisticated interpretations - there aren't even any axioms to derive them from, other than the rather useless one of "my god says do this".
urgh.. people just really don't understand that it is a rape if the woman/man doesn't consent or doesn't have the capacity to do so..
that thread is horribly depressing and a reminder of why rape conviction is so atrociously low (5% here in the UK...)
edited to add this horrible little quote:
The FUZZ said:
"of course not, unless the victim was acting as a stumbling block to the rapist"
In 2nd millennium BC Israel (or 3rd millennium AD Saudi Arabia), if you rape a virgin,
a)if she's not engaged, you have to pay her father 20 ounces of silver and she has to marry you (Deut. 22:28-29).
b)if she is engaged and you rape her outside the city, you get stoned to death (Deut. 22:25-27)
c) if she is engaged and you rape her in the city, you both get stoned to death (Deut. 22:23-24)
In the civilized world, it doesn't work like that. You get thrown in jail, branded a registered sex offender for the rest of your life, and maybe sued by the woman. Most of the human race has come a long way since the bronze age Arab goat herders who wrote the Bible.
"But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him," Deuteronomy 22:25-26
still JAG refer to his own passages:
I believe it is a sin because thats how i interpret those verses. I believe its a sin because those verses come from the bible, which after all explains to us what sin is in the first place. You telling me its not a sin wont convince me otherwise unless you can offer scripture to sway my view (which is possible).
Evidently this chump can't even read the damn passage, or chooses not to. Or perhaps he's interpreting it too strictly, and assuming that "there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death" still allows for some sin that isn't quite bad enough to warrant death (once again, since nowhere is even the word "sin" actually fucking defined, we can have no idea whether there are different levels of sin or whether some are worse than others or it's just some boolean flag)
Winston, there you are! Now come back to the ward, I don't know who left the door unlocked.
By the way, it's time for your pretty meds again.
[1] Being a rape victim is a sin It is the sin of the rapist
Thanks for clearing that up.
Wow, a fundie oroborus.
So, the rape victim who didn't sin, who is no longer a virgin... do you get the contradiction there?
Please, be a computer and divide yourself by Zero. Please.
You've gotta mighty disturbing catch-22 there mister "Mistaken." What's makes it even more disturbing is that this doesn't even make you question your god. You will live in ignorance, you will preach ignorance, and you will die in ignorance, but hell, at least you'll be dead. I would attempt to say something funny, but god damn... your logic is twisted beyond humor.
"Mistaken" also believes that being alive and human are both sins. Right?
So what's another sin gonna do in the grander scheme of things?
Being a perp, victim, witness, those are all sins.
Someone needs to top up Mistaken's sin level, please. Preferably surgically.
"c) if she is engaged and you rape her in the city, you both get stoned to death (Deut. 22:23-24) "
I suspect that the bits about rape "in the city" and "in the country" would be a case where they would go for the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law and it would be treated that way only if it was actually consensual. for example, the justification is that she didn't cry out. if she did, and that's how they found them, or if she was, for example, gagged, it would be ridiculous to use that standard. of course try getting a fundie to understand that...
"I believe being a rape victim is a sin, even though it is not the victims fault."
How on earth does that work? Is being a murder victim a sin too? That's just repulsive.
"Being raped is not the victims sin, but the sin of the rapist."
Exactly correct. But how does this fit with your above statement?
"No longer being a virgin before marriage is a sin."
Not true.
"I believe being a rape victim is a sin, even though it is not the victims fault."
How on earth does that work? Is being a murder victim a sin too? That's just repulsive.
"Being raped is not the victims sin, but the sin of the rapist."
Exactly correct. But how does this fit with your above statement?
"No longer being a virgin before marriage is a sin."
Not true.
First sentence: Utterly wrong, utterly sickening.
Fuck even the bible says if you scream and no one hears you, you're not at fault.
So what is it, are you trying to justify your deeds to yourself? I'm always suspicious of someone who feels the victim is as much to blame if not more than the rapist. "It wasn't my fault, she lead me on!" Is that it? Is that what's going on?
Glad to see the people over there know more than their god does.
Shit like this should not be suprising when SENATOR Doug Henry of Tennessee thinks it perfectly acceptable to say things like this:
“Rape, ladies and gentlemen, is not today what rape was. Rape, when I was learning these things, was the violation of a chaste woman, against her will, by some party not her spouse. Today it’s simply, Let’s don’t go forward with this act.’ ”
Apparently to fundies, rape is wrong only when it is the theft of a woman's virginity (which was guarded by her father and then passed to her husband as property), and not "simply" when a woman is violated and harmed.
So "Mistaken" is saying that being raped is a sin because that would no longer leave you a virgin before you got married?
What if the victim is already married and had a child? They somehow exclude them from being a rape victim?
Fucking idiots.
You vile excuse for a human being. You're lower than anything that I would scrape off my shoe. My best friend was brutally raped in her own home in the middle of the night. How dare you suggest that she and other victims are sinners. What could she possibly have been doing that would invite what was done to her? What she suffered, I wouldn't even wish on someone as disgusting as you. I wish I believed in hell so I could envision you suffering its eternal torment.
This has to be a guy saying this shit. I normally wouldn't wish this on someone, but I do I hope some other asshole with a similar point of view rapes this asshole. It would be ironic, before they both DIAF. (sinners!)
I actually can't believe somebody could possibly say that.
DIAF.
Also... no, my god, I just remembered what you said.
You sicken me.
Oi! Mistaken-- You are a truly evil person.
Fuck you, fuck your Jesus, and fuck your g0d.
Even were I a believer, I would NEVER bow the knee to such a vile cosmic madman.
I hope that what happened to Margarita's friend happens to you. I think you'll appreciate it far more. And unlike Margarita, I am not too nice to wish such a hideous fate upon you.
I regret that the submitter ommitted the quoted person(Mistaken)'s next words, 'But I do believe in these circumstances, you will definately be forgiven.
Speaking as a victim of rape, I just want to say with all the sincerity in the world....
STICK A RUSTED CHAINSAW UP YOUR ASS AND RUN HEADLONG INTO A FOREST FIRE YOU FUCKER!!!!!
At first I was disgusted. But then I went, "Oh wait, it's Christianity, it's a misogyny religion." So nothing too surprising here.
I regret that the submitter ommitted the quoted person(Mistaken)'s next words, 'But I do believe in these circumstances, you will definately be forgiven.
Fuck him still. Forgiveness can't fix the damage rape does to people.
You contradict yourself ALL THE TIME, in case you're wondering. If it's not their sin but the rapist's is the rapit's sin, period. If it's not their fault, IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT. And nowhere in the Bible says that not being a virgin is a sin. It's the WILLFUL LOSS of virginity the sin, you idiot.
I...I...I don't even know what to say to this.
Fuck, it's on a teen forum. Stop! Stop poisoning the minds of the impressionable teens! They're gonna grow up *even worse* than expected.
I believe being an idiot is a sin. Stupidity may be inflicted upon you by others, but you are the one who succumbed to it. Fear not for there is the power to recognize this sin and repent, but woe to they who willfully reject salvation.
Since we are supposedly "born in sin," just existing is a sin. That alone is reason to simply abandon the silly notion of sin altogether. This post, if it holds any theological water, is just icing on the proverbial cake.
"I believe being a murder victim is a sin, even though it is not the victims fault."
Do you now see how idiotic that sounds?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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