Same-sex marriage seemed to be detrimental to Massachusetts; as I recall, real estate prices subsequently declined. In contrast, the short-term and long-term economic benefits of the traditional family are difficult to deny.
["Could I ask what evidence you rely on to draw that connection between same-sex marriage and a decline in real estate prices in Massachusetts?" ]
I looked at the real estate market. The data is surely available for anyone else to review.
["That is ridiculous. Canada, which has accepted same sex marriage for the past 2 decades, has enjoyed a significantly stronger economy than the US." ]
In Canada there is no choice given to citizens about the issue: same-sex marriage is imposed throughout the nation. In the United States, there is high mobility away from states that impose same-sex marriage toward states that recognize how important traditional marriage is to long-term prosperity.
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Correlation, causation, and all that jazz.
Unfortunately, that's not entirely accurate: Canada has only recognized same-sex marriages nation-wide since 2005, in some provinces since 2003, and extended most marriage-related legal benefits to cohabiting same-sex couples since 1999. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Canada .
Also, it's not clear that Canada as a "significantly stronger economy than the US", especially if considered over the past two decades. The recent recession affected Canada much less than the US, but many of the standard economic indicators still favour the US. Before the recession, the US was generally accepted as having a stronger economy than Canada.
That said, Schlafly's suggestion that the purported correlation between declining real estate prices and same-sex marriage is causal is, of course, laughable.
I never understood the idea of using real estate prices as some sort of indicator as to the health of either the industry and/or the economy as a whole. After all, if price was the ultimate determiner of quality, health care in the US would be leagues ahead of every other developed nation (hint: it isn't).
Oh, and Schlafly is a nitwit, yadda yadda.
Real estate values depend on strong families and a growing economic base. That's not same-sex marriage.
Fewer and fewer people get married in Sweden. People just live together, indefinitely, perhaps combining the baptism of their third child with a small wedding. We seem to be doing fairly OK, economic-wise, anyway.
This sounds like a good argument for making gay marriage legal nationwide. Well, actually, it sounds like a stupid argument, but one right up Andy's alley.
So what I'm hearing is that to avoid any future economic bubbles we should have national marriages for any two people, regardless of their individual genders. Well shit, Schlafly, I'm ok with giving you that one.
"In the United States, there is high mobility away from states that impose same-sex marriage "
Are they moving at relativistic speed? Because that would prove the connection between the Theory of Relativity and liberal immorality.
First of all, real estate prices have been in the crapper all over the country since the recession started.
Secondly, I was totally unaware that Canadian citizens were forced to marry members of the same gender whether they want to or not.
Thirdly, and most importantly, Andy Schafly is a total dumbass idiot.
Hey Andy, you do realize that the housing market crashed in all states, not just Massachusetts. If you're going to use that logic, states that ban same sex marriage is detrimental to the U.S. as well.
The top five states for real estate decline are Idaho, Arizona, Florida, Michigan and Illinois. All but Illinois ban same-sex marriage by Constitution. Illinois bans same-sex marriage by statute, but allows certain same-sex civil unions. Massachusetts RE prices actually rose in 2011 if you exclude distressed sales.
So not only would correlation not show cause, making the whole argument ridiculous on its face, Andy didn't even get the correlation right.
"In Canada there is no choice given to citizens about the issue: same-sex marriage is imposed throughout the nation."
It's true, you know. We got the idea from Logan's Run. If a man doesn't get into a relationship with a woman by age 30, we have to marry a dude instead.
"Same-sex marriage seemed to be detrimental to Massachusetts; as I recall, real estate prices subsequently declined. "
At first, I thought for sure this was going to be from The Daily Mail.
That aside, correlation does not equal causation, etc. But just for funsies, let's assume you're right. If same-sex marriage caused a decline in housing prices, then it would be because bigots either moved away (increase in supply) or no longer wanted to move in (decrease in demand), pretty much the opposite of "detrimental" in my book.
In areas where two employed males live together and choose not to raise children, housing prices are typically high and only see modest dips during bad economies.
In contrast, couples that have an adult living at home and raising children, the housing prices tend to be lower and hit harder by bad economies. The most likely couples to have a spouse at home, heterosexual (mom being the usual unemployed).
For the very worst house situation, single mothers unable to work.
So it all comes down to, we should get rid of women. (thank you for participating in bad conclusions and solutions)
Schlafly's wrong.
It wasn't same-sex marriage that brought down real estate prices in Massachusetts, but it was a decline in traditional values.
A decline in one specific traditional value.
Just before the real estate market fell apart, a restaurant in a north shore town started putting tomatoes in their clam chowder. The repercussions were felt throughout the state. Many residents fled to Maine, causing a buyer's market in real estate.
The restaurant owners were white, heterosexual, conservative, christian, "traditional" family orientated republicans who had moved in from (shudder!) New York.
Save our families! Save our traditional values! No tomatoes please!
;-)
Actually the real estate bubble popped EVERYWHERE in the US, not only in Massachusetts (where I live). Recent numbers show it's actually turning around here faster than most other regions. The Greater Boston Area has a fairly healthy housing market compared to most. The bubble had a LOT more to do with predatory lending and inflated home values than any social factor.
@Misterboston: The US housing bubble first popped in the New England states (and the east coast in general, to a lesser extent), where the housing bubble was the biggest and most overinflated. There, it started showing signs of collapse well before the housing crisis and Great Recession hit the entire country, incidentally right around the same time that Massachusetts passed same-sex marriage back in 2004. Leave to wingnuts to take something with a kernel of truthfulness and distort it into something utterly ridiculous and anything but.
"In Canada there is no choice given to citizens about the issue: same-sex marriage is imposed throughout the nation." Well, I guess either me or my wife will have to get a sex change. I mean, since up here it's obviously compulsory to be in a same-sex marriage...
Same-sex marriage is imposed on the people through the federal government? Andy is that what fucktards like you want, only you want to impose heterosexual marriage as the only form of marriage on to the nation. In other words, conservatives only like their tactics when they are used to do what conservatives want.
So, lets see Andy. By your reasoning real estate prices must be skyrocketing in states that have voted against same sex marriage. Places like California and North Carolina...let me look it up...wait, what?
House Prices went up everywhere else in the US! See how economically strong the traditional christian states are! I'm looking at you, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas ...
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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