The natural law doesn't say that men and woman have equal roles either. Whatever they are, men and women are not equal in every sense. By nature, for example, they aren't. This is obvious.
Now, both sexes are equal in human dignity and rights. But human interaction and nature institutions ultimately create hierarchy. So, some of the more prudent reasons ancient people thought that wives should be subject to her husband is
1) woman tend to be more sentimental and thus irrational
2) when there is a disagreement in a marriage, a conflict of deep importance that requires a decision, in order for the marriage to continue, one spouse needs to "veto" the other. The man should be the ultimate decider because of (1) and (3)
3) Woman are biologically inferior to males, because they are a "misbegotten male."
(1) is arguable, at least. (3) has been proven wrong with the advancement of biology. (2) points out something very important, and probably explains why divorce is such a huge problem in our society.
18 comments
1. This is 2016, why do we still believe the barbaric notion that rationality and sentimentality are mutually exclusive? Besides, men are HELLA emotional - they just repress them so much that they tend to emphasize extreme anger or extreme joy as opposed to a more balanced set of emotions.
2. Or, you know, you can talk it out like equal human beings and come to a decision based on that. Compromising requires more strength and integrity than standing stiff and saying "my way or the high way" does.
You already rejected #3 of your own accord which shows you're not completely up your own ass, but your failure to reject #2 is on you.
Natural law? Who adopted that law? I never saw the decree.
So, no, women should not be subject to their husbands. It just goes to show the OP is too insecure to actually try and discuss things with his wife. He needs to have power over her to actually convince her to go along with him.
And the name Lucretius should not be the name of a christian. The OP is just an usurper...
Sorry, but if a woman is a misbegotten man and more irracional, why do they live more than men in average and are the ones that become pregnant, making them the less disponible gender?. Sorry, it doesn't make sense
The natural law doesn't say that men and woman have equal roles either.
Well, we wouldn’t want to break the natural law, now would we. So, where I can read that law? I want to follow it to the letter, so I need to know its exact wording. Where can I find that? Be specific. please.
ETA: Aaaand ninja’d by DT. Get out of my head! ;-)
I don't think women are misbegotten males. In fact scientifically speaking the reverse is true.
The default model of the human body is female. All embryos will develop as female in the absence of male hormones or androgens.
This is seen in the syndrome of androgen resistance where a genetically male foetus develops as a female as its cells don't responds to androgens.
It is more accurate to say that men are misbegotten women
If any one spouse has veto power in any instance, it should be because of their knowledge and/or experience. My boyfriend has masters in both structural and electrical engineering. So, when we buy a house, I'll defer to him on matters of structural soundness and adequate electrical systems. Since I have owned a house before and he has not, he'll defer to me on questions of the everyday practicalities of owning that house. If he knows what good for him! :-)
so in 2 you believe compromise is impossible, and one must lead, and 1 & 3 are the reasons why that should be the man and even you yourself admit that 1 and 3 are horseshit...
what are you even arguing for? matriarchy? patriarchy? that you shouldn't be taken seriously?
maybe you're arguing that ancient societies were kind of fucked up and we shouldn't model modern society on that of people without indoor plumbing?
"In order for the marriage to continue, one spouse needs to veto the other".
No, that's a dictatorship. In order for a marriage to continue, they each need to compromise, and learn to defer to the other's wishes on occasion.
Men and women, however, are individuals. Defining everyone with arguments that say "tend to be" is using some poorly defined (and incorrect) average, then applying it to everyone.
And I would never have married a man who was so insecure that he had to wave a book at me to tell me he should be the "ultimate decider".
Uh, you are supposed to put the premises before the conclusions, logic is not a "choose your own adventure" genre.
and misbegotten males? That's strange considering that all fetuses start out as female with some turning male later.
Now, both sexes are equal in human dignity and rights.
....then you decide to deny women their human dignity and rights. Why is it so hard to open a dictionary for you people?
1) woman tend to be more sentimental and thus irrational
What's so irrational about being sentimental? What's wrong with that?! You want us to be hardasses?!
2) when there is a disagreement in a marriage, a conflict of deep importance that requires a decision, in order for the marriage to continue, one spouse needs to "veto" the other. The man should be the ultimate decider because of (1) and (3)
Sure! The woman in a situation may be smarter and even RIGHT in the argument but, nooooo....the guy has his way by virtue of being masculine with external genitalia.
3) Woman are biologically inferior to males, because they are a "misbegotten male."
Technically; It's the other way around.... Females have stronger genes, X-chromosomes are stronger, Y-chromosomes are sort of a half-formed X-chromosome, women have higher pain thresholds, women live longer, all embryos (future boys, included) start off female, women gestate new life for nine months then squeeze the darn thing out of a TINY hole "down there"! "Pussy" should be an epithet for "strong and awesome"!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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