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Qoeleth #fundie

It seems to me that atheism is, if properly considered, treason.

In countries with the Queen as Head of State, she is held to be ‘Queen by the Grace of God’. In the USA, the Pledge of Allegiance involves expressing belief in ‘one nation united under God.’ It seems that by believing the God does not exist, a rejection of the notion of the Sovereign Divine Right of the Crown is negated, as well as the notion of a ‘nation united under God.’ Therefore, it seems that atheists are guilty, ipso facto, of treason, at least in the USA and Commonwealth countries.

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LittleFlower378 #fundie

Also sporting events have gay pride days, even the MLB teams promote it which has made me find some different hobbies.

What’s the worst is that religions promote homosexuality as well. I’ve gone by many Protestant church’s and even Jewish places where the rainbow flag is draped publicly outside.

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saxum #fundie

You’ve described England. Multiculturalism and political correctness has destroyed us. The Land of Hope and Glory is dead and gone. We won’t produce anymore Winston Churchill’s or Isaac Newtons. The most popular name is now Muhammad. Get ready America. It’s gonna happen to you.

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Teek #fundie

So I could use advice. A lot, actually.

An adult provided sexually explicit material to my underage daughter.
(None of it is “hardcore”, and in our day and age it would not be considered “pornographic.”)

I was not given the opportunity to “opt out” from this sexual education provided in a school setting which is a violation of my rights. (Indiana State Law.)

My daughter’s emotional and physical well-being has been damaged by this experience. I suppose they would argue it is because I have raised her with an unrealistic moral code which leads to guilt, but hopefully everyone here knows that is not true because she has also been raised in grace through the Sacraments and so she has access to the strength of the Savior in fighting the battle for purity. But good luck explaining THAT in a secular environment. Maybe it will be relevant to them that SHE desired to be chaste and an adult violated that against her will.

I don’t know what to focus on.

I don’t know how far I can take this. I would be willing to press charges if it would do good for parental rights to protecting their children. I do NOT want to do harm, for example if it went to that and I lost and it set a legal precedent for the schools to have those rights over parents.

I don’t know what I should be asking them to do in response. They allow me to request another book for my daughter. What about the other kids? What about the fact that it has happened twice and I was not informed?

I don’t know if it would be helpful to inform the other parents. My heart says I should print out the objectionable passages, and send them with a letter to the parents to tell them what the children have been exposed to so that they can talk to their children about it and help them with it. I don’t know if that would be helpful or just cause a problem to no avail.

I don’t know if there are laws that have been violated. (Other than the ones my soul is very adamantly certain have been!)

I was hoping someone with experience or knowledge about this could advise me.

Or even that someone could direct me to any resources that might help.

I have found articles that associate viewing sexually explicit materials with a lower age of first sexual encounter, a higher number of partners, and decreased sexual satisfaction from encounters. (The last of which may be the only concern this teacher might hear.)

I am looking for credible journal articles on the effect of exposure to these things at a young age and the consequence for children who have this type of experience.

Anything at all would help.

Most especially, please pray for me and for my daughter. My name is Theresa. Her name is Mary. Please ask your prayer chains to lift us up, anyone you can. The more the better. I feel that this has potential to have a big impact on protecting intellectual innocence. Or the fact that I feel like this is so important indicates a self-centered inflated view of my own issues, in which case I still need those prayers!

Thank you for any and all help, advice, and prayers.

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Teek #fundie

My daughter is a sophomore in high school. She attends a local public high school. (No Catholic High School in area.)

Her literature teacher assigned a book that has a lot of objectionable content. I saw it when she was doing homework and idly picked it up so I’d have something to do while she was finishing up a math problem, and flipped it open and that was the beginning.

“In Cold Blood” by Truman Capote. It has some graphic violence. It also has prostitution, sodomy, rape, gang rape by “queens” on a 16 year old boy, children watching their mom have sex with random men, child molestation, and so on.

I sent an email to the teacher objecting to the content and asking to meet.
She is allowing my daughter to use a different book. We have not yet met-we will this week.

I asked my daughter about the class, and she started crying. The book before this was “The Highest Tide” by Jim Lynch. In it, a boy is obsessed with his adult babysitter’s female anatomy, describes it often, and “has his way with the sheets” when thinking about her. It also discusses graphic terms for sexual pleasure and where it is located in women, and uses excessive profanity.

My daughter said she can’t get it out of her head, she feels dirty and she is ashamed because it made her curious and she has been wanting to find more stuff like it, but she hasn’t, but she is so ashamed.

I am livid.

She wrote about her disgust with the objectification of women in the first book. Her teacher said “Boys will be boys.” I know that isn’t much, but it was an adult woman talking about masturbation to my daughter without my consent.

I think by secular standards the stuff was mild. By my standards, it was deplorable. I need help navigating with my ideological point of view in this sea of filth. On line it appears that these books are not common, but also not rare, in the high school setting. Therefor this isn’t a case of a piece of literature that will unanimously be understood as inappropriate.

I plan to meet with the principal and the teacher as soon as I have my case together. I have typed up the objectionable passages—eight pages, 31 seperate passages from just one of the books! I am going to ask the teacher to read a few out loud to us in the meeting. The language is prohibited by the school handbook. I don’t know why they think out loud and written would be different.

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Aloysium #fundie

Darwinism fails on several accounts:

It does not consider the existence of the individual organism with its focus on its material constituents, genetic molecular changes. It sees as the driving force, merely the electrochemical processes of atoms, which are said to underlie the complexity we find in life. This is all said to be random. The shaping of living forms is held to be survival until procreation, when clearly so many factors are involved in mating, both physical and emotional. It speaks of species, thereby recognizing that they are more than abstractions, in conflict with the idea of this being a purely physical cosmos. The focus on molecules and species neglects the reality of ecosystems. An individual animal or plant exists solely because it is at the same time, part of a greater whole.

It fails most clearly and completely when we contemplate our own existence:

As I see this screen, pause to collect and connect these thoughts, feel the wonder, and move my thumb over individual letters, one person, the explanatory value of Darwinism is reduced to the infinitesimal. I can understand how the physical structure of the phone, in this setting that contains my still functioning brain, shapes the relationship I have with the material world and unknown persons with whom I am communicating. That material code running on the computer that is my relational Spirit results in this whole, cleaved into bits and pieces of experience while remaining one. All this complexity, to what end but the journey of creature to its Maker. Without God, without any acknowledgement of life’s ultimate purpose, any theory about the creation of the universe, all living beings and mankind, is going around in circles, providing illusion to people hungering for truth.

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ChuckMonk #fundie

No. I’m saying the alleged victims here kept their mouths shut for years rather than risk something. This is revealing for two reasons. One, they thought Harvey Wienstien had the power to completely destroy their career (or worse) regardless of any rape charge. Two, who was it they were afraid of? Mean old conservatives? Fox news? Brietbart?

Nope. They were scared of the feminists, the leftist media, and Hollywood progressives. Very interesting how that works.

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ChuckMonk #fundie

But once the news hit and thoae groups were forced to report on it, those women suddenly felt in the clear. Which means they think those groups are enough now.

What is really happening is that the report hit and those groups reluctantly cut Weinstein loose, and once he lost his protection, now it was safe to come out and accuse him… More than safe, now you get hero-points and sympathy for just making the accusation, proof no longer required. But before the NYT report hit, these allegations were apparently well-known and widespread. Until the media gave the go-ahead, his victims obviously felt like they had no back-up, but once the media gave the go-ahead, they feel no fear at all.

I believe Weinstein is probably a pervert, but I’m disposed to believe that. I think all of these Hollywood progressives and liberal men are perverts. I don’t know why the NYT decided to take down him in particular, but dollars to dimes says there are more of his type still out there but since they aren’t being cut loose yet, there’s no accusations being put forward. Which means these women do trust the media’s power to protect them and their careers… But they don’t trust the media to actually do so.

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phil19034 #fundie

It's Divine Law.

Masturbation is an unchaste behavior. Masturbation is the "gateway sin" to other sexual sins.

If we learn chastity, etc., then boys will not do this. The only reason why boys do it is because they hear others talk about. So they get curious and try.... But like drugs, masturbation is addictive. Also, as boys grow, masturbation leads to an objectification of women. Masturbation also (unlike popular myth) typically does not make a man a better lover, but rather a more selfish lover.

Finally, masturbation separates the love of another person from the congeal act, meaning it makes it more difficult to "make love" when married.

As someone who used to be addicted to this sin (and still sometimes suffers from withdrawal) masturbation is very dangerous as you grow. It also leads to porn addiction, etc. which is usually very bad for a marriage.

My suggestion: whenever you feel the urge to masturbate, start praying multiple "Hail Marys" until the urge goes away.

I pray this helps.

God bless and Happy Easter!

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CuriousMike #fundie

As a teen, it is something that can be very difficult to control.

That said, learning self-control is very important, not just in the sexual sense, but also in eating and drinking (in addition to smoking - which is also something that is allowed, but in "temperate" quantities).

Learning sexual control is prudent too - I feel our society is "over-sexed." Avoiding these situations could help reduce the instance of STI's/STD's and unplanned pregnancies. After-all, we are designed to procreate within the bounds of marriage.

The Church teaches what she does on this topic since masturbation is using one's genitalia for their own wicked means.
It can contribute to the whole "trade" of illicit imagery that is so rampant in our society today. Even secular scientists are beginning to research "Your Brain on Porn" and note that the effect is VERY similar to illicit drug use. The need for more outrageous fantasies and imagery more often also matches illicit drug use, and eventually abuse. The other issue, which I touched on, is it is using the genitalia for pleasure. Sex is made to be this way - and is made in this way so as to encourage us to procreate. Masturbation takes the procreation out of the equation, and turns what should be "a good thing" (the genetic code contained within the semen) into filth that needs to be "cleaned up" and "washed away."

Now, despite all this, lots of teens and adults do battle with this habit daily. One of the best things I heard was to focus on the means of attaining your goal, NOT the goal itself.
If you focus on "not masturbating" constantly, then thats already the first thought, the "obsession" in the cycle of addiction. The Devil WANTS us to despair over the fact this is a difficult-to-break habit.

Instead, if we take this one step at a time, and simply try to make our lives more holy through the Sacraments, Prayer and faith in God - then these baby-steps are easier for us than simply daunting ourselves with "I Will not Masturbate."

And if you fall - try to take it as a learning experience. What went wrong that resulted in this?
Once you understand, put the event behind you and try to improve in that area. Go to confession, and most importantly, get Spiritual Direction and a Regular confessor. They can suggest further means of battling this habit, they can assess your culpability, appropriate penances and so on. There are some tactics that can be applied to some cases - but this can only be done in specific cases and is not appropriate for some people (as it can subvert Church teaching).

As a closing point, Fasting & Abstinence, when done correctly, can do great things in kicking this habit. As does a daily recitation of the Rosary and/or the Divine Mercy chaplet.
Also remembering that "idle hands are the devils workshop" is important. Don't leave yourself alone and bored. Its VERY dangerous.

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Deacon Jeff #fundie

Default Re: Are furries so bad?
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it must be a . . .

I live in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh hosts the annual "Anthrocon". I can tell you first hand, it is disgusting and it IS all about the sex. This from an "entertainment worker":

"My city Pittsburgh has hosted the Anthrocon conventions for the past nine years due to the big profits for the city itself, and this year the furry fan-dom group has donated tens of thousands of dollars to the Pittsburgh Aviary.

Wonderful, BUT I ask Pittsburgh being duped into believing this group is something other than what it is?

Having worked in the adult industry for decades, and having owned adult websites back in the mid-nineties, I'm fairly well-versed on adult fetish categories.

I'm not going to bore you with descriptions or lengthy explanations, you can Google it and find all the information on the subject matter yourself, but I will get straight to the point with this:

Gross link removedAn adult X-rated video of a plush furry fetish sexual deviant in action. (Warning! Obscenity. This is a simulation of bestiality.)

My professional opinion is that Anthrocon is a CON, and this is not just simply a group of thousands of grown adults who love furry animals----think about that for a minute!

My concern is for the children, and that's why I am writing this piece. I stumbled on a chat forum where a parent was inquiring whether it was safe for their 14-year-old son to participate in the furry culture.

When you read some of the answers that are given, it will send chills down your spine----most notably the answer about how only a very SMALL percentage of them are into bestiality.

Even more disturbing to me as a parent is that our local news media personalities have not taken the time to investigate this for what it really is, and thus, when the Anthrocon convention rolls into Pittsburgh, they giggle and promote it as a children's fantasy.

"There is no city that welcomes us in the way Pittsburgh does," said Samuel "Uncle Kage" Conway, chairman and CEO of Anthrocon told the local newspaper. "People here have embraced walking foxes as part of the scene."

This sense of acceptance is important for attendees, who come to Anthrocon to join a community of like-minded anthropomorphics devotees hailing from 25 countries and every state except North Dakota, Mr. Conway said. More than 1,100 attendees dressed in full-body fursuits will walk in a parade Saturday afternoon inside the convention center.

Take my word for it; it is not in any way, shape or form a child's play fantasy game.

It is an x-rated adult fetish group with a fur fetish, similar to diaper, rubber, and other strange materials and objects used as sexual stimulation fetish tools."
Link not give due to improper links within article. Go ahead and google it if you care.

Those who "believe" (probably sincerely) that this is a only a small part of the culture are naïve.

Deacon Jeff

Tuitio Fidei et Obsequium Pauperum

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lutheran farmer #fundie

I lived what I thought was a moral life before I was baptized Christian. I thought I was doing a pretty good job.

Once I actually studied Catholicism and understood God's law, I found that my morals were based only on society's morals and therefore, were subject to change. I was fortunate to be born and raised in a country whose morals are loosely based on God's law. However, they are not the same as God's law, but merely based on what we humans tolerate from one another. I would call it morality based on non-interference with others, rather than based on some deeper philosophy. Injury or death to those that do not have a voice to object, is morally acceptable in a society that bases it's morals on the lack of interference with others. I accepted the laws of my country as morals simply because they were the laws.

I didn't question or ponder much until I took a philosophy class which challenged me to work morality out for myself. Only then did I see the terrible shortcomings of laws based on non-interference with others. We are all connected in both sin and happiness. The closer I moved towards following God's laws, rather than society's, the happier and more fulfilled I became. The difference is like the darkness versus the light. It is our soul that longs for God's law. Once you become aware of the needs of your soul and it's natural longing for God, you can't be happy without Him. The happiness you thought you had pales in comparison

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NonNobis #fundie

I really HATE to bring up this topic, because it's always on these forums.

I'm an 18 year old male, Cradle Catholic, and I really struggle with masturbation. Used to be porn, too, but I think that's stopped now (I pray).

I've actually been masturbating since I was five, but I can't remember how it started. I didn't realize it was wrong until I was twelve. The longest I've ever gone without falling is 3-4 weeks, and I can't stand how helpless everything seems. I go to confession, I give it an honest effort, and it never fails that I have to go back within a week or two. A couple of times I've just given up for months out of depression.

I pray frequently, always asking God to guard me against temptation, and I avoid whatever I can that would cause me to falter. I don't care if it makes me seem radical: I don't go to pools or beaches; if I'm watching a movie that "surprises" me , I get up and leave; if conversations turn a tempting way, I change the subject or walk away; I avoid teenage parties in general, and I don't talk to girls by myself. That's gone a long way for me.

For the past 6 months, though, it hasn't been external temptations, but internal ones that catch me. I'll make it a week (whoo!), feeling like I'm making progress, and then I get urges that keep coming in waves, until I give in. They aren't caused by or attached to anything. They just appear, seemingly at random. How can I defeat these?

Can I use a chastity device? I'm not looking for a way to make masturbation impossible. Nothing can do that, just like an internet filter can't stop you from using a password. But it makes it more difficult, at least. I would have to apply effort and CHOOSE to masturbate, and that might help me stop. Has anybody ever done/heard of this?

I really hate this sin, and I'm willing to use everything at my disposal to stop it. Whatever you end up telling me, though, please pray for me.

Sorry for the long post.

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Geremia #fundie

What is wrong with guilt and shame? Your child should know that masturbation shameful because it is. How else are they going to learn this if you don't explicitly tell them? Why should alienating the child be avoided more so than stopping the act of masturbation?

Are you afraid the child will rebel once he turns 18 and turn into a promiscuous heathen when he meets the "real world"? This is possible, but he certainly would be worse off hitting the "real world" with mortal sin having stained his soul.

However, if you are vigilant and strictly correct him before he becomes addicted to it, he will greatly respect you when he grows older and continues to discover the beauty of chastity and purity. He will think, "Wow, although I didn't realize it at the time, my parents really cared for me!"

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westNwewaxation #fundie

Yes, the first thing is to "love God with all your heart and soul", then the rest follows.

Also I just want to say that I have actually been in reparative therapy. They do not "zap you" that is kind of a reference to early attempts at therapy done I don't even know how long ago. The therapy now has evolved and (if it is not outlawed) will continue to evolve, to build upon the desire to turn toward whatever heterosexual functionality a person has (most even gay men have some) and learn creative and even pleasant ways of turning away from same-sex fantasies, and making that turning away from evil a sort of routine habit that becomes "second nature". I have heard the analogy of ruts in a dirt road applied.

The more you drive through the rut with porn or even homosexual fantasy that you voluntarily stick with and daydream about, the deeper the rut gets. But if you learn to turn away from that "rut" and stay out of it as much as possible, God can and will fill in those ruts to some extent. It is different for everyone. Some have a sort of bisexuality, others have deep-seated homosexuality to the point where they are repulsed by heterosexuality. But avoiding inappropriate sexual thoughts and filling our minds with scripture and other good thoughts is key.

Lastly I just want to say that despite all God did for them, some of the Israelites ACTUALLY DID want to return to Egypt! It's a great lesson for us.

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Robert Sock #fundie

I predict a much higher conversion rate to Christianity for homosexual Atheists than for hetrosexual Atheists, starting in the near furture. The reasoning is simple: Homosexual Atheist are going to become aware much more easily that their sexuality is based on evil spirits than will the heterosexuals. God love us all, but the Holy Spirit will lead repentant homosexuals to a much higher spirituality, analogous to the parable of the Prodigal Son.

People everywhere, especially conservative Christians, are experiencing a low morale these days, and all the more so if Clinton is elected president, but they forget that God can bring good out of evil. No matter who is elected, things are going to be just fine because we are one nation under God, and He has not abandoned us.


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Lucretius #fundie

The natural law doesn't say that men and woman have equal roles either. Whatever they are, men and women are not equal in every sense. By nature, for example, they aren't. This is obvious.

Now, both sexes are equal in human dignity and rights. But human interaction and nature institutions ultimately create hierarchy. So, some of the more prudent reasons ancient people thought that wives should be subject to her husband is

1) woman tend to be more sentimental and thus irrational

2) when there is a disagreement in a marriage, a conflict of deep importance that requires a decision, in order for the marriage to continue, one spouse needs to "veto" the other. The man should be the ultimate decider because of (1) and (3)

3) Woman are biologically inferior to males, because they are a "misbegotten male."

(1) is arguable, at least. (3) has been proven wrong with the advancement of biology. (2) points out something very important, and probably explains why divorce is such a huge problem in our society.

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Lost Sheep #fundie

It probably won't happen in my lifetime, but I firmly believe that before the 21st Century is over we are going to see another Civil War in the United States. And this time it won't be over secession, or slavery or fought across boundaries like the one in the 1860s.

This is going to be fought over ideology. The political Right will take up arms against the Left. America's moral compass has not just lost its direction; the compass itself is lost. Political Correctness is run amok. Freedom of Religion is practically illegal. It's all about "me" and no longer about "us" anymore. I could present a whole laundry list of how the liberals have messed up this country in the past eight years and if the liberals prevail in the next presidential election, it is only going to get worse.

It needs to be stopped; by force if necessary.

I plan to purchase an AR-15 type rifle this weekend because I'm afraid I may not be able to buy one after next January.

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ucfengr #fundie

(What concerns me about how some Catholics view marriage, it can come across that it's all about reproduction, rather than love.)

Marriage being about love is a rather new idea, and looking at the current state of marriage, not a good one.

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Elizium23 #fundie

would rather have persecution and oppression of the True Faith than the current state of affairs.

I would rather that Catholics be martyred for our beliefs and forced to go underground, worshiping secretly, than secular humanist atheism be permitted to take over and run rampant in this nation because of the technicality that the powers-that-be don't consider it to be a "religion" by their definition (it is indeed religion masquerading as something else) and allow it to piece-by-piece establish itself in the infrastructure of this country ever since the American Revolution.

I would rather that priests be shot openly in the public square, and thus assuring their Heavenly reward and witness to the Faith, than this abuse of our internal scandals such as sexual abuse, and idiotic snarky sniping that goes on in the Huffington Post and by "enlightened atheists" that want to throw off the shackles of Bronze-Age morality and usher in a new Utopia of atheistic peace and tranquility.

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edwest2 #fundie

Speaking from the US, the cry of "Why can't I get married" didn't end with a marriage license. Oh no. Gay wedding? A florist or baker or photographer refuses their services and legal action follows. Your schools will have storybooks for children showing gay marriage as normative. TV programs will casually include gay husbands or bisexual wives if they haven't already. 

If it was just two men or two women saying they were married and going about their lives, what will you tell your children? Will your children be told that any type of sexual desire or encounter is good or neutral? No one likes to be forced.

I see being sympathetic as a good trait but not if it is applied without knowing what marriage really means and has meant for thousands of years, then why should two men or two women get married? In the US, benefits were mentioned, but when states tried to give these benefits to gay couples without the word marriage, one LGBT site claimed that that would make them 'second-class citizens.' So gay marriage is not possible in a real sense even though it is legal.

And the next phase is gender identity. If a boy or girl in school feels they are actually the opposite sex then they can legally use a girls' restroom even though they are clearly boys. Then groups will be formed in schools so that gay and straight students can interact, but that's not all. You may have heard the term "diversity day," where all sorts of good and bad things are presented as 'we're all different but that's OK." Just use common sense. Not bullying a classmate for being gay is one thing but for young people whose knowledge of the outside world - the real world - is limited, such groups can cause confusion or even lead to invitations.

This is a situation where friendships and true, committed love boil down to 'any sex is good regardless of the mix and match number of partners." That's the end goal. And here, right as the gay marriage finish line was in sight, the fight for 'gay divorce' began. 

And civil rights?

Just be honest.

I wish bullying other kids for being overweight, or to show your power to "persuade" them to give you money or just for upsetting other kids by disrespecting the pecking order in schools should have ended decades ago - for everybody. Teenagers would get into fistfights to show their strength or prove they were "real men." Ending that would have made schools better for all decades ago. But it seems it was not a hig

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otjm #fundie

Not to make too fine a point of it, but Hitler killed about 10 million. In the United States alone, we have killed something like 54 or 55 million killed through abortion, and that is just in the U.S. Include all the other countries which promote and approve abortion, and the number is incredible.

Pretty much makes ISIS the "junior varsity" team our President declared them to be; they are just more efficient in using graphic imagery

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JimG #fundie

I don't know if this decision, unique in the thousands of years of Western civilization, will ever be rescinded or not. It may not matter at this point. The institution of marriage has been all but destroyed by contraception, divorce, and sexual license. Obergefell merely puts the final nail in the coffin. If marriage is dead, as it seems to be, the family follows suit, as does society and civilization. All that remains is to endure the coming dark age and rebuild when it becomes possible again to recognize reality.

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KathleenGee #fundie

I some how agree with P Benedict and the late Cardinal Francis George....that after secularism has destroyed society, the Church, as it has done in the past, will rebuild society and the family.

For now, we devout Catholics are a small minority in my part of the country. But we are strong and vibrant and provide many gifts of presence, giving, and culture to the secular community.

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starryheart #fundie

[My daughter says she is an atheist?]

There's a very interesting movie out there which you can get at a Catholic bookstore. I think it's called "Science Tests Faith." I watched it a few months ago and it talks about the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. This movie shook me to the core. It was quite overwhelming. Maybe you can get her to watch it. I know it might take more than a movie but keep trying. Get a gallon of water and get it blessed by a priest and add it to whatever your family drinks. Receive Communion and offer it up for her and her conversion.

My sister too has left the church."...pray to a God that may or may not exist!" That's what my sister says. Even though it's tough I'm not giving up and you shouldn't either. I pray God will open your daughter's eyes too. Stay strong, she'll come back. Keep praying.

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tonyrey #fundie

Christopher Hitchens needed alcohol to sustain him in his barren view of life. He spent his life attacking religion because he had nothing to defend! He needed religion because without it he would have been lost! It was his main source of inspiration: the very fact that he never expressed doubt or fear about his convictions demonstrates that atheism was his religion. He worshipped his own opinion as if he were an infallible authority. Intellectual pride was the fatal flaw at the root of his scheme of things because unwillingness to admit we may be wrong is a sign of weakness not strength. It demonstrates that we are unreasonable and incapable of intellectual development. As you point out "The atheists or non-religious mostly remain where they are." They are trapped in the hole they have dug for themselves. 

And a reputation based on notoriety is not worth having. It makes money at the expense of moral integrity. To attack Mother Teresa and Pope Francis who have done far more to help poor people than he ever did is evidence of spiritual decadence. They will be remembered long after he is forgotten because he has left nothing but cynicism and despair. By their fruits you shall know them...

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Charlemagne III #fundie

Yes, at the core it is hollow, meaning empty.

Atheism argues one thing and one thing only, that there is no God. This is a negative that implies a hundred other negatives that go nowhere. That is what I experienced as an atheist in my youth. The negative effects of atheism on my life were profound. It was only when I began to see the negative effects of atheism on others (and on society at large) that I was able to look in the mirror and see them in myself as well. 

What is positive about atheism? Nothing. 

What is positive about religion? Everything, so long as you have the right religion. Some radical religions are also negative, but none of them are so hollow as atheism. 

This is not to say that atheists cannot be upstanding citizens in society or have virtues that commend them. But it is to say that atheism cannot spring from fundamental roots that grow happiness in our lives. 

I do not say that religion is a guarantee of happiness, since too many people by the lip service they give to their faith show in their lives that their faith is not authentic. 

The true desire to see God, however, inspires hope and virtue in a way that atheism can never do.

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cjforJesus #fundie

This is only the first step.The final step is intergenerational sexual activity between adults and children.It is part of the Kinsey agenda.
With the erroneous SCOTus ruling pederasty is now legal in all 50 states I find it disgusting that children are being taught that homosexual contact including the insertion of the hand into the anus is normal loving behavior.Sorry for being so blunt but I feel people that love each other should be respectful. It is all very pagan practice though so not surprising. Like I said this is only the first step toward total freedom of sexual expression between all age groups. It is part of Kinseys agenda as he saw nothing wrong with fathers "fondling" their daughter sexually as long as they did it "lovingly" YUK

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mikekle #fundie

Oh, I would say hate is very much involved in abortion, in order to work at one of these places, or have any kind of involvement requires some level of hate within the person.

I would say if the doctors, nurses, staff, etc were truthful, they are most likely very unhappy, hateful people, but they have learned how to put on a good poker face.

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Flambeau,Fr. Vincent Serpa. #fundie

I feel like God wants us to have a big loving family, and my wife and I feel called to have many more children, so naturally we turned to adoption. Unfortunately, many of the Houston area Christian adoption agencies aren't accepting any new parents, or aren't having informationals( the first step) for a year or so. There is one great agency, who claims to be Christian, but they allow same sex couples and single parents to adopt children. They are able to get us started immediately, but I have been postponing as I think giving a child to a same-sex couple is morally evil, and the Adoption agency is the prime agent of the moral evil. Would I be materially cooperating with evil by adopting a child from here?

No! On the contrary; you would be rescuing a child who would otherwise be denied a family life with both a mother and a father. Get to it!

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Rev48 #fundie

[In reference to an article entitled: Liberty Student: Why I Didn’t Cheer for Jerry Falwell Jr.]

Since when is self defense "hateful"? Are you proposing we all defend ourselves like defenseless unborn babies in their mother's womb and hope liberal ideology shows us mercy and doesn't kill us?

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SeanF1989 #fundie

In response to an article from 1915 demonizing Catholics immigrating to the US much in the same way Muslim immigrants are vilified today:

If this was published today it would get a round of applause from the left. There would be no social justice warriors running to our defense. There would no celebrities mentioning all the great things the Catholic Church did for the world. image

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mikekle #fundie

Showing gay characters is one thing, but glorifying the openly gay lifestyle is another, especially when they convey casual sex encounters as common. If this is shown enough on TV shows, commercials, movies, the more people will become used to the idea and eventually it wont be taboo at all...this 'tactic' can also be used for agendas, not just LGBT lifestyles, at some point, it will probably be used in attempt to 'normalize' pedophilia' to some degree, it really is already happening, Ive seen quite a few shows/ movies that depict a middle aged man having a sexual encounter (or desiring such a thing), with a 16-17 yr old female, this isnt really pedophilia, but it 'breaks the ice' and paves the way later on for acceptable 'trysts' with younger people. A common theme is "whats age got to do with anything, we are just out to have a good time".

I think Hollywood tries to convey what they think a 'normal' lifestyle should be, it is accomplished by showing character reactions to such things, their emotions, etc, they know how to spin it, so people come to think its all normal, in the 90s, they tried the same thing, but in attempts to depict strong single women, in otherwise normally male jobs, like cops, detectives, judges, etc, but if you looked at real life, there were not many females like this out there...its just something Hollywood (or someone above them) wanted to become normal

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SeanF1989 #fundie

guess this is the case all across Western Europe, places like Poland and Hungary are still quite devout but Western Europe is not, even Italy and Ireland aren't devout anymore, I wonder what the future holds for Western Europe, US, Australia etc; atheistic dictatorship or Sharia law?

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MiserableSinner #fundie

I know the best reform for Islam. Convert them all. If St. Patrick could convert a whole country of pagans, we should be able to convert Iran and Saudi Arabia right? Pagans were even worse than Iran and SA!!!!

Our Faith is the only true Faith with the fullness of Truth. We literally have God on our side. If the Saints of old converted people in the WHOLE WORLD, why can't we convert our country? Why are we LOSING numbers of PRACTICING Catholics? You would be surprised how many don't know basic things like something I heard today - you can't receive the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin. I heard that over half of us don't believe in the real presence of the Eucharist, yet most people receive on Sunday. Maybe I am hearing false statistics. I hope so.

"Everyone has their own beliefs."
"Muslims worship the same God as us. We don't need to try to convert them. Let them have their beliefs. We don't want to offend people."
"Don't talk about politics and religion."
"I don't want to be uncharitable. I must be prudent." (What is more charitable and prudent than saving souls from eternal Hell?)

We have so many excuses. If 99 people reject us and 1 person is converted - ONE PERSON WAS SAVED FROM HELL. And what if that 1 person converts 99 in the next decade?

But we can't save them if we ourselves are not converted. We need the whole body of Christ in a state of grace, praying and sacrificing!!!

God help us to serve you and do your Holy Will. Help us to place your Holy Will above our daily lives and our desire to feel comfortable and avoid confrontation. I love you and I trust you. In Jesus Name I pray.

Mother please help us. In Jesus Name I pray.

I ask you all to pray for me, because I have often avoided confrontation and desired comfort when I should have been speaking up for the Truth. I often see Muslims and instead of talking to them and trying to convert them, I pray for them sometimes. Ask God to give me boldness and a love for the cross and a love for their souls and their childrens souls.

I love you all and I salute you all
I salute your Guardian Angels (I love you all. Please ask God to give me this grace.)

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KSU #fundie

An effort is always made, in any debate of this nature, to equate Liberal Catholics with Conservative Catholics by implying that, if dissent is harmful to the Church, Conservatism is, too.

In order to pull it off, the term "Conservative" or small t "traditional" is unfairly vilified and then slyly substituted for "orthodox". It's an old trick, and many thousands of people have been unknowingly taken in by it the last forty years. It's the MO of the political and religious "left".

The objective of Liberals is to convince the poorly educated that religious orthodoxy (called "Conservative" or "traditional") represents many errors, and that, therefore, a modern concept of the Church is needed--a victory for Liberals because the reason for their dissent is to rid the Church of most orthodoxy. They stay in the Church because they want to work for a dissenting church with the Real Presence.

BTW, there is no chicken-and-egg conundrum for orthodox Catholics; God created chickens, not eggs.

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phil19034 #fundie

who are we kidding.... this is simple. The ISIS is using the refugee system as a way to invade Europe and secularists who want to rid the world of Christianity and/or religion want a Muslims invasion. These secular fools actually believe that by having Muslims enter the west, they will eliminate or neutralize Christianity and the Muslims will then become "educated" and change their views.

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marbleartist #fundie

Please help us sort out this moral and ethical dilemma. We live in a state that recently passed a law stating that all abortionists must have admitting privileges to a hospital within 30 miles from the location the abortions are performed. This law also states that the abortion clinic must maintain the same cleanliness standards as an outpatient surgical clinic. Due to these requirements, all but 8 Planned Parenthoods have closed. Yay! Unfortunately, one that remains open is located in my city. Worse yet, the abortionist has been featured on one of the undercover videos from the Center for Medical Progress- and she admits to breaking the law, doing partial birth abortion on live babies (not killed with digoxin injections prior to the procedures) and doing 30 abortions per day! She is the face of evil and moral bankruptcy. My husband is Division Chief Medical Officer of a large hospital system, which includes a large number of hospitals in our city. After investigating, it appears that the reason our Planned Parenthood remains open is because two of MY HUSBAND'S hospitals have given admitting privileges to this abortionist! He notified the CMO of each of these hospitals who were also horrified. Upon investigation, it appears that she won't be coming up for credentialing for several more years! It also appears that she just obtained admitting privileges after this law was passed. Unless our state charges her with a crime (which isn't unlikely because they raided that PP) there is nothing to be done to revoke her privileges. husband is working as CMO and one of the doctors on staff is an abortionist who revels in her job. He and I are sick about it. He also approached the Division CEO who doesn't want to touch this political hot button. The only recourse currently is to make common knowledge that this hospital system is enabling PP which would no doubt cause a local uproar forcing some action by the CEO. Or, he could remain silent. Or he could quit. What, in your opinion, is the most moral and ethical action? Thank you.

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Sailor Kenshin #fundie

Revelations is hard to understand, for me, but I would take the article with several grains of salt.

I don't believe in aliens but I'm pretty sure demons are real. They are the angels who sided with Lucifer. As such, they have no physical form.

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mikekle #fundie

(About the objects recently found orbiting a distant star that some have speculated might be proof of aliens. The exact headline being referred to is "Kepler Space Telescope: Mysterious Objects Raise Questions About Bizarre Star")

At first we had Ceres and the strange lights (which has become more bizarre the closer Dawn gets to it), now this?....the conditioning process progressing quite nicely.

I know they are saying Kepler has never seen anything like this before, but why would they basically announce this with this kind of headline...kind of strange imo.

If this had been discovered 10 yrs ago, a headline like this would have NEVER been used, they would have never even mentioned 'extraterrestrial civilization' in the article...seems to me they are just itching to announce to the world that they have found proof we are not alone...and give organized religion its pink slip.

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Michelle Arnold #fundie

I believe that it is fair to conclude from this that Catholics, as members of their Church, have an obligation to do all that they can to "defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself." Unless and until the Church specifically states otherwise, good Catholics may disagree on how to apply the principles the Church outlines in documents like this one, but they must ask themselves whether they are disagreeing for the sake of upholding a right understanding of marriage or for the sake of soothing their conscience so they can avoid personal inconvenience.

You ask why there is a difference between attempts at same-sex marriage and other types of invalid marriages contracted between heterosexuals. I think the answer is that there is nothing that inherently prevents marriage between heterosexuals, indeed marriage was created to be heterosexual, and so invalid marriages between heterosexuals could foreseeably be regularized at some point. So, while there may be a need for family members to avoid a particular heterosexual marriage, there is no need on a social level for a vendor to decline to offer services (unless he feels strongly that he should in a particular situation).

The same does not hold true for homosexual unions. Homosexual unions are invalid by their very nature and can never be regularized. Indeed, by their very nature, they are not merely destructive to the individuals involved but to society as a whole. If they become "normalized," such "normalization" may well destroy civilization, and that is not an exaggeration. For that reason, I believe that all who are asked to participate in any way in such an event should refuse because such an event threatens not only the family but the larger society, of which the family is the essential building block.

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Elizium23 #fundie

(The green part is a quote from elsewhere, included in Elizium23's post.)
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

The case against masturbation is not solely based on Onan's sin. It is, of course, a strong argument for its Scriptural basis, but the primary principle here is stated in the Catechism. "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." This is a consistent and logical application of Divine Law to human sexuality. From this principle we also condemn sodomy, homosexuality, adultery, fornication, pedophilia, sexual fetishes, BDSM, and the like.

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Governator #fundie

People do it because they are horny that's the main reason so if one does not have control of ones passions or lower faculties it's not uncommon for a human being of either sex to commit this sin.

The other reasons might loneliness, sexual frustration, porn addiction, sex addiction or it becomes a stress reliever in the same way people drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes.

Porn and society factor a lot in this sex isn't what people expect or want it to be with their spouses and they try to reenact a scene from a porno mag or video or a erotic book or something off television of film and when things don't pan out or their partners are not putting out or as much as they want they go and masturbate.

So basically people cheat on their spouses with porn or fantasies and in some worse cases live sex shows or prostitutes or free of charge affairs.

When you think about masturbation it is pretty pathetic of a person that they have to have sex with themselves or an image or fantasy or memory it should be classified as a form of mental illness really.

Who cares if apes and monkeys masturbate they eat other primates and fling and eat their own poop so I don't think we should take pointers from them.

Pray to God, Ask Jesus forgiveness every day, read the Bible go to confession every week and receive Communion weekly in a state of grace every Sunday Mass or daily if possible.

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adrift #fundie

I have never heard of a person who was "proud" to have an illness. A pedophile who remains chaste is the same as a homosexual who remains chaste there is no sin. It is when they engage in sex that it becomes sin and there is not a bit of difference between them. When you state that it is not a sin to be a homosexual that does not engage in it you are correct but that is equally true of a pedophile. It makes no difference who is hurt. I would postulate that there is no such thing as a sin not being harmful. Homosexual acts hurt the people involved. Look what it has done to our country. There is movement similar to the beginning of homosexuals to make pedophilia acceptable. I disagree strongly that it hurts no one. Do you believe committing a mortal sin doesn't hurt you?

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Son of niall #fundie

Fundamentalists and Atheists appear to be opposite sides of the same coin. Think about it.

1. When interpreting Scriptures, both factions insist on a literalist translation, ignoring genre, original audience, and idiom.
2. Both insist that their own view is 100% correct, and all else are absolute fools, decreeing themselves to be the final arbiters of truth.
3.Fundamentalists will not discard their misguided faith under any circumstances.
4.They are militant in 'evangelizing' the unwashed.


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estesbob #fundie

In addition we have twisted the meaning of pedophilia in an attempt to hide the overwhelmingly homosexual component of abuse. Homosexual rape , statutory or not , of post-pubescent boys is passed off as pedophilia rather than the homosexual action it really is . As an example the media continually talks about pedophilia priests when in reality there was very little pediophilia involved and very little abuse of girls involved

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cena #fundie

[In a thread about the "Avatar: The Legend of Korra" finale.]

Yeah, I felt uncomfortable when Korra blushed about that. I don't support homosexual/bisexual behavior at all ever. The LGBTQ community is extremely small. There are a lot more pedophiles than there are of LGBTQ people. The media just obsessed about it som much people overestimate how many people there really.
A lot of people use the letters as evidence. But when you think about Korra was at her lowest point it took awhile for her to start walking again and she couldn't even tell her parents about it. Bolin isn't a very serious guy(would you write to Bolin?), Mako is her ex boyfriend and Asami is a girl so I thought it made sense that she would tell her without it hinting anything romantic.

I've seen straight girls hold hands, but the whole looking at each other at the end was not implying platonic feelings.

Honestly, I wish we could go back to the days where girls could support their friends (especially when their friend's dad just died) without it being romantic

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Governator #fundie

After today I feel like maybe God should wipe us all out.

I saw on a television show my wife was watching because she watches garbage a woman masturbating with a blanket over her watching porn on a smart phone while vibrator noises could be heard.
Same character convinces another they are gay and it's and not wrong to be gay and God's okay with it and it's beautiful.

Then I went online and saw an article posted by huffington post titled something or another like "Is God Gay?"

After that I really felt humbled and can't blame God if he smites this world and I kinda am in favor of him doing so.

This world is that messed up and things aren't going to get better.

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Tantum ergo #fundie

True dat.

I'm old, but not old enough to remember Nazi Germany and WW2. . .but one can't help see the parallels in 'logical thinking'.

After all, having Jews wear special clothing was LEGAL, right?
Taking them off to concentration camps was legal, right?
The government knew best, right? And hey, if some of the actions seemed a bit dicey --oh wait, they're actually putting these people to death? but. . .well, we're at war, and it's us against them, and I'm just following orders, you can't blame me for just trying to do what I'm told. . .

It all started in such a SMALL way, and such a would be HELPFUL way, you know? Germany had war damages to pay from WW1, there was a world wide recession, some of Hitler's plans for a strong unified Germany seemed just and logical and good for all the people. the 'long range' forecast was couched in such ways. . .and those little things 'along the way' were maybe not really such great things but hey, you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs --and after all, it started out being stuff done by only a few people. in 1933, 1934, 1935, 1936 etc. you yourself might not even have noticed more than a few Jewish people in your small town, and you CERTAINLY didn't go around breaking their windows or stealing their property. You might not even have known this was going on in other places. . . and if it was, it was probably because THEY had been going around stealing, and this was only a just restitution. . .

and the lies kept spreading, and the propaganda kept growing. . .

Kind of reminds me about how we were told that abortion should be 'safe, legal, and rare', and that it was ONLY to be done in cases of incest and rape. . .

and then it was only to be done if the poor mother's 'mental health' was in danger. . .

and then it was ONLY a 'blob of tissue'

and then it was 'the woman's body'

and then it wasn't simply 'a' choice, it was the preferred choice.

The lies keep spreading and propaganda keeps growing. . .

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Elizium23 #fundie

As someone who is adopted, I resent that adoption is being co-opted by homosexualists to manufacture human beings, tear them away from biological parents, and put them in objectively harmful and unnatural family situations.

I don't know much about my birth parents except they were young, unmarried, well-educated and 3/4ths Irish. My mother may well have aborted me if she'd had the chance (it was 1971). Instead I was carefully carried to term, given up perhaps reluctantly, and placed quickly with the most loving parents I could imagine. Sacramentally married, they are permanently infertile and longed for children. My sister was adopted later. My parents never stopped, sponsoring a destitute Indian child through CNEWA, and taking in a never-ending stream of rescue cats. My parents have an abundance of love and share it with everyone they meet. They have plumbed the depths of the true meaning of marriage. Homosexuals can never have any of this.

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JimG #fundie

Ultimately, same sex 'marriage' will be roundly rejected, most likely with the 'children' of same sex couples leading the charge against it. I anticipate that acquisition of children by same sex couples will become something akin to human trafficking. There will be a backlash.

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kristleful #fundie

[[Happiness is a subjective thing, which in turn, means that something can be a blessing to one person and not to another, therefore, a blessing is subjective. Some children contribute to wellbeing and welfare and some do not, therefore, not every child is a blessing.]]

A blessing from God does not change in its nature according to our individually subjective reactions. Our small minds, influenced by fallen human nature, often prevent us from seeing the full goodness of God's gifts. We don't know what is best for us; we can't see the big picture; we cannot see in this life the infinite preciousness of a single human soul so loved by God that He would sacrifice Himself in its place.

I can't imagine living life thinking that only some people are blessings. I'm sure you are not saying that a person's worth is based on how happy he makes his parents when he arrives in the world... And if you agree with me there, it might be helpful to remember that we do not exist merely for ourselves. We are called to give ourselves fully to God and others in self-sacrificial love, no matter how difficult or painful the situation may be. This life is merely a journey, by which we strive toward Heaven through love and sacrifice. Yes, even if a woman loses her earthly life by bearing forth a precious new person, she has gained such a blessing---the opportunity to share in God's creation of an infinitely loved soul. And she will not regret this as she goes into the arms of her infinitely wise and loving God.

[[Certainly not. I am not talking about a person's worth at all. I am just saying that if someone is not open to life, their child is not viewed as a blessing. That being said, it can still turn into a blessing. Or it could be born a blessing and turn into not being a blessing. But that is using the definition of blessing as something that results in happiness and wellbeing. If you are going to use the definition of blessing as "God made it" then sure, everyone is a blessing. Seems like a dumb definition though. Loses its connotation as a positive thing when you say all children are blessings. Was Hitler a blessing?]]

Yes, Hitler was a blessing when God created him. He wasn't born already ordering Jews' murders; he was just as innocent and beautiful of a baby as any other person. We don't know what good effects he may have had on people before he chose a terrible path, and we don't know what was deep in his heart at the moment of death. We do know that God did not love Hitler any less than He loves the rest of us, and He still created him even though He foresaw the terrible sins Hitler would commit.

Every person is valuable to God; therefore, every person conceived is a blessing. And yes, everything God creates is a blessing, because it is good (according to God in Genesis). That definition cannot make the term "blessing" lose its positive connotation, because it is based on the fact that what God creates is good. Sin brings evil into the world, but it does not change our fundamental goodness as human beings loved by God. Hence Jesus instructs us to love our enemies and those who do us wrong, because they are still valuable and worthy of love. Likewise, a conceived child who may inadvertently cause one's life to become more difficult is still very good, valuable, loved by God, and thus a blessing.

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JD27076 #fundie

What if your mother was going to die if she didn't have an abortion?
This question startled me.

I did not know what to say. I know that ALL Cases of abortion are morally wrong and a mortal sin. But, when the baseball reaches home, its kind of hard. You can say a Mother should die instead of having an abortion all day long. BUT, whats hard is saying, MY Mother should die instead of having an abortion. I do not want my mother to die.

I am a hypocrite on this subject.I will tell someone that their mother should walk in the footsteps of St. Gianna, she died for her baby. But I will not tell my mom to die for her unborn baby. I love my mom very much.

How would I respond to this? Ask yourself, what if your mom was going to die unless she had an abortion. I really do not know how to respond.

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Trifelfrt #fundie

I was amazed over how long it took for the US to legalize gay "marriage". Coming from a country that legalized baby killing in the 70s, it's a bit shocking (the delay, that is!).

There is nothing to stop gay marriage from being legalized in the entire western world. The new generation overwhelmingly supports it, and people will keep defending it. Why? Because they've all swallowed the "equal rights" rhetoric. Of course, it's not a matter of equal rights -- no one really could stop a gay man from marrying a lesbian woman, for example, sexuality was never taken into consideration --, but rather of redefining the institution of marriage so as to include same-sex relations that are essentially sterile and incomparable with the union between one man and one woman.

But the truth doesn't matter to those people, because the issue has taken emotional proportions -- it's now all about "my friend, who is gay and can't marry!!1" or "my son is gay!!" or "love must win!!1" without any consideration for what marriage is. It's extremely hard to fight back "equal rights" nonsense, precisely because of its emotional appeal. Gay activists have hijacked the black civil rights movement. Now they've turned it into a human rights issue, to pretend that, just because there is no such institution as "marriage between people of the same sex", gays are discriminated against.

Prepare to watch the end of christian morality and common sense in Western civilization. It's already here. Babies can be killed, people of the same sex can marry with each other, "God doesn't exist, the universe exists with no explanation whatsoever", and so on.

Frankly, I'm now convinced there's only one way Catholics can take over the world again: reproduce like rabbits. At the end of the day, the old generation dies, and the new generation inherits the world. If traditional Catholics overbreed liberals (and average people, who just follow the liberal agenda), and actually teach their children the tenets of the faith, good philosophy, natural law, and the basics of reason, the world might be restored in Christ. Muslims are doing this in Europe.

Traditional Catholic couples should have as many children as they can, and teach them to persevere in the faith and think critically of secular philosophies.

This generation is already doomed.

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punisherthunder #fundie

It's all a slippery slope with this........

Homosexual marriage, 5-10 years later polyamory marriage, 5-10 years later pedophilia marriages, 5-10 years later bestiality marriage, 5-10 years later necrophilia marriages.

In the short term, marriage as you know it could be an entirely different entity in as little as 20 years and in as much as 40 years

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JimG #fundie

So what could we do to restore the dignity of marriage?

First, honor the commitment to fidelity and permanence. Make divorce difficult. Require grounds for divorce. Eliminate no-fault divorce. The very fact that it exists vitiates the marriage vows even as they are spoken. Assign and enforce alimony as liquidated damages when one abandons a lifetime commitment.

Make adultery a civil offense with civil penalties, as well as a ground for divorce and alimony.

Limit the availability of contraception. It is contraception, after all, that first broke the link between marriage and children, and ultimately led to children being treated as commodities.

That's a start.

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Lisa_N #fundie

You cannot do a grave wrong in hopes of making something right. Even if the mother was risking her life by continuing the pregnancy, the reality is that there was not 100% risk of death for the mother but the abortion was a 100% risk of death for the baby.

If this is a real scenario then of course the children are angry. I used to date a boy whose mom died in childbirth. She'd had six kids and there was no reason to believe she would die giving birth to the seventh. THe kids were STILL resentful of their little sister and they were in their late teens. Frankly kids are mad at their parents who die even if it's in something besides childbirth. It's the result of immaturity and fear of abandonment.

I still don't see how you could justify the abortion so maybe you can present the argument more clearly. A couple of angry kids is hardly a reason to kill someone
Lisa N

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Memaw #fundie

I would trust a Christian counseling , (working with GOD), way over a secular counseling. (They don't seem to work all that great anyway.) It worked for Josh, now if people will just stop making victims of the Duggars and let them get on with their life, Josh and his family too. That happened many years ago, they have moved on very nicely and live a very Christian life. Which is more than we can say about to many in our society. When ADULTS condone abortion, homosexuality, sex with anyone they want, even when married to someone else, pornography, trash on TV, etc,etc and etc. Who are we to judge a young boy for making bad judgements and repenting and asking forgiveness for them. And making a GOOD life for himself. The law was supposed to protect him from all this media trashing but the law failed this young man and his family. And many are jumping on the band wagon. It is unfair for those who were molested by someone to take it out on Josh. Forgiveness brings a lot of peace. The Duggars have handled this very well. They helped their son while safeguarding the other children. I give them a lot of credit on how they did that. How about we just leave them alone so they can get on with their life in peace. God Bless, Memaw

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Denise1957 #fundie

Well said. The praying of the Rosary can be very effective. It does indeed need to be a war of love (for souls, IMO) and an intensive one of faith. It will help, too, to withstand the coming of more or worse persecutions, IMO.

The proponents of same-sex marriage won't likely stop at just having same-sex marriage approved in all of the western countries. I think that there will be referendums later which will force the Church to marry same-sex couples, since the forces behind the "Gay agenda" have a lot of money and power, and they know how to twist thinking through emotional appeals. I think it's more about hatred of Christianity, rather than just being about advocating for same-sex couples that's behind the "Gay agenda."

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mkoopman #fundie

[Ireland today is very hospitable]

Unfortunately, not to human persons. The understanding of the human person in Ireland is clearly lost to relativism. Ireland is hospitable to Leninism and most likely a form of Trotskyism from there. The human person has one sexuality that is related to the complementarity of the two kinds. The worldly concerns of the political decline is less relevant than the lack of understanding of who we are.
We are from God and destined to return to Him. He humbled Himself and became a man, Jesus Christ, through a woman, Mary, The Queen of Heaven. Marriage is defined by the relationship of Jesus to His Church, and it involves unfathomable love expressed in His Passion and Death on the Cross.
I pray that Ireland can come to recognize who the human person is, again, and throw off the lies and deception that blinds the majority. Join Him in His Ressuraectino and take on the blessing He pours forth in the New Covenant through Pentecost.

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It's only a matter of time.

You read cases about christian bakers who have been forced to shut down or bake cakes for married same sex couples.

The Church will eventually be faced with this choice, marry same sex couples or you will be closed down and don't think that freedom of religion laws will protect us. They are being slowly eroded away. If not in our lifetime then definitely in our children's.

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pepipos #fundie

SSM opens the door to numerous scenarios and yes green cards, visas, etc.. will be amongst them, as before. However SSM will definitely open the door to enhanced paedophilic activity and other very unusual monetary/legal connotations not yet even thought of.

As SSMs cannot be consummated they cannot be annulled, nor will adultery be applicable as a reason to divorce, hence all the civil marriage laws will need to change to accommodate this.

It's all completely farcical. SS relationships could have been fully catered for through type, i.e. hetero or SS.
civil partnership agreements, with specific criteria used depending on the partnership

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Fr. Vincent Serpa #fundie

[Surgical assistant asks for advice on if they are bound by their belief to not assist a transition surgery]


What the surgeon is doing it attacking a healthy organ, the man’s breasts, and mutilating them. There is no disease there. This is immoral and a sin.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.” It quotes Densinger 3722 here.

So yes, I suggest that you refuse.

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JimG #fundie

Yes, I agree that same sex marriage is only a proximate end to the ultimate end of destroying religion and making the idea of "religious liberty" irrelevant and inapplicable.

At the same time, when it comes to same sex marriage, I have never seen religion as the primary opponent of those proposing it. Religion did not invent marriage. Marriage arose out of human nature as male and female. The deeper attack is not on religion; it's on human nature itself. We see increasingly an intent to disregard human nature, no matter the consequences. It's not just that only man and woman can form a conjugal relationship. That's a matter of biology. It's that many refuse even to accept human biology. They don't care how they are made. They want to do what they will to do, human nature be damned.

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dominikus28 #fundie

Would it be moral for the state to punish heresy with the death penalty?

I'm only asking about the moral aspect. So I'm not interested in the likelihood or posibility of any state doing this, but simply if, let's say, Monaco made heresy illegal, would Catholics be able to deny it as immoral? St Thomas Aquinas says that murder of the soul (heresy) is worse thsn murder of the body, and many heretics were killed in the Spanish Inquisition. I know the numbers are greatly exaggerated, but let's be honest, heretics were killed for being heretics, and repentabt heretics were mercifully strangled. ISIS executes those who don't convert to Islam, but that's immoral because islam is wrong. It's a different story when talking about Catholicism because Catholicism is the correct religion. And if you accept that the state exists to help us be more virtuous, then stopping heresy fron spreading using lethal force would be justified.

It probably wouldn't be prudent to kill heretics because ideas can spread over the internet and so on, but again, my question is about the morality of this. So was it moral to kill those heretics back during the Spanish Inquisition?

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needmorelight #fundie

"Well, thanks for actually confirming that the creators DID mean to have a Korrasami ending.

The problem I have, even more than the actual same-sex pairing itself, is the insinuation that (1) anyone who thinks the pairing was "forced" is either overtly homophobic or somehow not open-minded enough, which this quote seems to imply:

That's basically a way to stifle any actual critique of the way the show played out by implying that those who don't think this ending was set up well, are homophobic, too invested in a heteronormative worldview, etc.
This is what upsets me the most with Bryke's statement. Just because someone disapproves of the homosexual lifestyle doesn't mean we're hateful. I find it strange though when he talked about viewers having a heteronormative worldview. I'm heterosexual, it's the only perspective that I know. I've held hands with women before, blushed when they compliment me. That doesn't mean I'm in love with them. How else am I suppose to interpret those gestures but platonic?"

But you're right in that calling people who disagree as homophobes is actually shutting down any meaningful discussion of the story from the narrative standpoint. If they have to spell it out for viewers what their intentions were in the "romance" department, then I'm sorry but that's just bad writing.

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WonderAndAwe #fundie

LGBT Propagandist: "Hey Jimmy, I hear you like boys."

Jimmy: "Yeah, but I really wish I didn't. It feels wrong"

Propagandist: "That's just close-minded bigots infecting you. Being gay is a beautiful thing and super-duper normal! Here's a box of free Trojans. Go explore your sexuality!"

Jimmy: "No, I'd rather not and never. It feels wrong and I don't want to do something like that."

Propagandist: "Jimmy, don't deny your desires. And if you're worried about how you and another man can have sex-"

Jimmy: "No, shut up and go away. I don't want to be gay."

Propagandist: "Okay, you're still in the closet. I understand. Don't worry, we'll help you come out and be proud of your sexuality."

*this kind of thing goes on for several months until...*

Jimmy: "I give up, I guess I might as well embrace my homosexuality."

Propagandist: "That's the spirit! And from what I hear, hunky Jack Williams is single and also just came out of the closet. Why don't we set you two up?"

Despicable, ain't it?

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MegaSchultz #fundie

Our 17-year-old daughter's friend announced on Facebook that he has rejected God & is now practicing wicca. Is wicca considered part of the occult? We are very upset because our family has had problems with curses, etc. being placed on us by homosexual neighbors in the past. These had to be broken by a priest. We don't want to have to deal with anything like this ever again. Thank you for your help.

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SaintPatrick333 #fundie

But most psychologists "are" unethical in todays age. The same counselors who only ten fifteen years ago warned against children being raised in single parent homes because they needed a mother and father to have the right balance of masculinity and femininity to have a healthy relationship/healthy childhood. These same crocks are now saying that children will be fine if raised by two men or two women. That's soooooo wrong! And SUCH a double standard. It's only because of society making being gay political that every public figure is eager to jump behind it. I can imagine many of these "activist" types would probably be less than charitable if their own children came out. It's not fair to ask a parent to accept their sons sin. If they truly love them they will not give an inch in that regard. Society calls it discrimination/bigotry/hatred yet in reality it is simply love. Pure and unpolluted love. Society has lost track of that big time.

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anibal #fundie

There is something wrong with a man thinking he is a woman or a woman thinking she is a man. It is mutilation with dangerous hormones. Most transexuals were sexually abused in childhood which messed up their minds and transexuals sexually abuse children. Transexuals are mutilated gays and lesbians. I don’t care what others say but mutilating a man or woman to make them fake members of opposite sex is gay/lesbian. And gay/lesbian groups are apologists for Transexuals which is why the word T is there. They must abolish this surgical mutilation.

All transexuals are homosexual/lesbian as the act of mutilating to become false opposite sex is itself an act of homosexuality/lesbianism-sad maiming and make this illegal. Finally, sex change maimings which is mutilating some1 to make them fake members of opposite sex is comparable to trying to make a man a fake animal because he thinks he is an animal trapped in a human body. Most feminists are not speaking against this. 1 would hope that feminists would oppose the mutilation that happened to Chastity Sun Bono as feminists have spoken against Female Genital Mutilation which happens in some nations. Transexuals are mutilations which no Dr. should take part in, yet most feminists are not condemning this female genital and breast mutilation as what happened to Chastity S. Bono where her healthy breasts were mutilated, dangerous hormone shots and her genitals mutilated.

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ExGratia #fundie

(On whether or not it is a sin to perform an abortion to save a mothers life)

One thing we need to keep in mind is that doctors are not gods. There have been cases of doctors telling a woman "one more pregnancy will kill you", the woman ignoring the admonition, and going on to deliver a baby and live. Only God knows the hour and moment a person will die. Not only do miracles occur, but also fallible men make mistakes.

I remember a thread in which a woman vehemently defended her mother (to the point of calling her a saint) who had aborted the poster's older brother or sister because a doctor said she would certainly die if she didn't. Her mother may or may not be a saint now due to repentance, but the effects of her error have had lasting effects on those around her; for one, her daughter's conscience is not properly formed due in part to this action.

This isn't a matter of putting the life of a baby over that of his mother. This is a matter of putting our faith in the medical machine rather than in God. And only God can save your immortal soul, which is ultimately what matters.

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bogeyjlg #fundie

In rape, the victim is lowered to that of a mere object to be used to achieve the rapists own ends. That use of someone as an object is pure hatred.

When one masterbates, they are most often using an image of another to satisfy their own sexual desires. In the same token, they are using the other to achieve their own ends. That is still hatred.

Thus I see no difference.

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O Sapientia #fundie

(Someone asks if masturbation is still a mortal sin if it is used as "treatment for prostate enlargement in lieu of surgery or medication, in mild cases of benign prostatic hyperplasia. While "benign", the symptoms can be quite annoying, including getting up 4 or 5 times a night to go to the bathroom.")

Then the appropriate response would be to suffer going to the bathroom a few times a night, rather than committing a grievously offensive act to spare one the trouble of walking two meters to the toilet. Aborting a feotus in instances of sparing the mother's health remains a deplorable and evil act, masturbating to alleviate a medical discomfort also remains a deplorable and evil act.

(do you have ANY idea what it is like to be unable to have a full night's sleep because of this, then have to wake up, drive 100 km to work, put in a full day's work that requires a high degree of mental concentration, and then drive 100 km home at 6 pm, often on icy and snowy roads that equally require your full attention?)

No I have never experienced your particular trial. But hardship and trial is universal to all men and there is a Catholic response to trial and hardship. It is suffering in union with Christ and His Mother.

(masturbation is not at the same level as's not just an issue of suffering. Several times I nodded off behind the wheel coming home in the evening, from lack of a good night's sleep. It's a matter of safety of myself and those I share the road with, and simply being able to function.)

Yes there are degrees to the gravity of sin and I do not deny this. But that does not change the fact that masturbation remains a grievous offense which is one of the conditions for an act to be mortally sinful. Sodomy is of higher gravity than masturbation, masturbation is of higher gravity than fornication, all three will land you in a state of mortal sin if you have full knowledge and willfully consent. The grave nature of masturbation does not alter with our own subjective culpability. I fully acknowledge that there can be diminished capacity but diminished capacity is not an excuse to sin and penitents that may have diminished capacity due to force of habit, etc., should not be encouraged in contentment but should rather be directed towards escaping the thralldom of sin.

If your medical condition places your safety and the safety of others at risk the response is not to commit an offense of a grave nature to avoid this. It would be to not drive if you cannot do so safely. The answer would be to have the surgery done even if impotence would be an unintended side-effect. Yes your financial well-being could suffer, yes your capability to procreate may be taken from you. But to spare committing a grave and unnatural act? It would be the moral and right thing to do.

You are a Benedictine Oblate yes? You have made a solemn offering of yourself to God. If your job must go, offer it to God. If you cannot have children, offer it to God. An offering of ones self is the entire vocation of an Oblate. All of these options would be preferable, would give glory to God and lead to your own sanctification, rather than to indulge in a grave offense against God and the natural law.

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He Man #fundie

Besides, when did open-mindedness become a virtue? I don't think it is bad per se, but i certainly don't think it trumps obedience, for example. I realize it, like tolerance, are two pillars of the liberal mindset (no offense intended here), but that does not make it of value in and of itself either.

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Buck Crosswhite #fundie

The only reason I can think of for homosexuals to adopt children is because they want to have sex with them.

Before everyone gets all nuts on me look at the first man to adopt children in Florida. Then he went to jail for molesting them.

Besides that homosexuality is an abberation and children shouldn't be turned over to abberrant people to rear.

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OrdinaryMelkite #fundie

My personal take on this (besides the teachings of the Church) is that masturbation is an act of inherent selfishness and vanity. It takes the pleasure of a sacred act meant to consecrate God and His covenat with his creation and turns it into an act of self-love for self-gratification.

To paraphrase Blaise Pascal, one of the greatest advantages of the Christian religion is that it teaches us to hate ourselves. That self-love is wrong and Love Of God Only is the Only True Love.

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Openmind77 #fundie

[a "Hindu" arguing with a Baha'i]

The other reason why you and your fellow Bahais should calm down (so to speak) is that the real Christ will be appearing pretty soon (maybe in a couple of years). This will be a great shock to you and your belief system. There is nothing wrong with your religion (I think it is just great and wonderful), but do not keep these wild expectations that your leader is the Avatar for everyone - I am afraid you will be soon very, very disappointed.

[Baha'is comment: That's very interesting my friend. What is the source for your inference that the real Christ will be upon us very soon?

Do you have any information on how we, too, can attain to your knowledge?

Also, I would not hold your breath about the Bahai population being 7 million, I think the next set of figures may well shock you.]

There is not just one single source that says that the Return of the Christ will occur soon - it is multiple and many sources (even Billy Graham - who I don't think that much of - said so just last month).

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livingwordunity #fundie

["Well, duh, but that doesn't tell us anything about whether or not marriage should only be allowed for a male/female couple."]

Do you believe that the definition of gravity should be changed, too? Some people might think the current definition of gravity is unfair.

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Polaris #fundie

(In a thread about a Saudi man who killed his daughter for converting to Christianity.)

Also imagine how much faith you have to have, to kill your daughter for your God. These are human beings just like you and me with the same emotions, I would not be able to do it, but he loved his God more than his family. I think that God is smiling upon both of them right now.

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Seamus L #fundie

While undoubtedly there were innocent people killed by the Nationalists in Spain, the fact remains the Church hadn't yet become so anti death penalty in the 1930's. Thousands upon thousands of Communists, Socialists and Anarchists ended up dead in Spain because they chose a life of mob violence, torture, desecration and destruction of that which is Holy.

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Qoeleth #fundie

I suggest that the recent rise of homosexuality is a reaction made by a patriarchical culture to the movement to give women equal rights. Homosexuals are trying to derive women even of the status in human relationships.

A homosexual is effectively saying "I can go ahead and have a sexual relationship without including women, without having the consent of a woman." Homosexuality seems to be all about reducing the power and status of women- of making them unnecessary. I think, in spirit and effect, it is almost akin to rape.

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1ke #fundie

["I think that you are confused on the definition of abortion. Medical abortion is a procedure that uses various medications to end an established pregnancy. [...] If there never was a pregnancy to begin with, then it cannot be considered abortion."]

No I am not confused.

The medical community's verbal acrobatics in an attempt to redefine preganancy so these drugs do not qualify as aborting is not recognized by the Church. What Webster says is irrelevant. What the Church says is relevant.

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[Talking about atheists on the forum.]

To whomever....

Such as Maryk123 and one other I picked out as atheist agent provocators. They get on the boards and stir up disent and consternation denying divinity and heresy and coming close to right out blaphesmy......

When people sign up u should get there cell # and send out a code for them to enter and validate. That would block them one and all........

They must be policed. Atheists do not deserve the same typr of treatment the rest of humanity gets.

Hope u can do something about it.....

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Dinah_Rose #fundie

I was browsing in the library the other day and found a number of books that were morally problematic for one reason or another. Some were anti-Catholic, others were anti-religion, others glorified immorality. You get the idea.

While I could not afford to do so for every bad book I came across, I was wondering if I could check out a particularly bad book and "lose" it. I would pay for the loss, the library would be compensated, and the book would no longer be available. Is this stealing? Or, if it is, can I just keep re-checking the book out on a regular basis so it is not available to others?

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mgrobertson79 #fundie

[In response to "Some of the comments on this thread serve as evidence that laws protecting the rights of gays are sorely needed."]

They do not deserve nor should they get special treatment for their sexual deviancy. There is nothing that makes them special. I think we need a law that makes us all equal. Oh wait, we have that already. This is a load of bull stuff and I am surprised anyone is buying in to it. Homosexuality is a mental disorder, it was listed as such until about 40 years ago and nothing with the behavior has changed. No one is born gay or lesbian, it is a conscious choice made and a habit acquired though those choices. The Church says it is intrinsically disordered and I will not adjust my views from that because some politician's or group of liberal no it alls say so. I don't hate gays, I only wish they would stop acting like they are better than everyone else as well as shoving their sexuality on the world, it's beyond old now.

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JRKH #fundie

People in the Moral theology forum are certainly free to disagree with Church teaching. However if those people happen to be Catholic, and disagree with Church teaching, they may be placing their souls at risk. Therefore it is not a good idea.

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WordFuzion #fundie

Actually, I know in my heart and soul God was in the works on 9/11. If you start reading the stories of the people who were supposed to be at the World Trade Center at the time of the attacks, you will find an odd phenomena. Hundreds of people were late, got held up in traffic, took the wrong train, etc. that prevented them from being to work on time.

I do not believe for a minute that God would pour out his wrath on this country. Remember, he was willing to spare Sodomm and Gomorah if he could find but ten innocents. And also, if he was going to do that, then why send Jesus? He gave us the free will to make the choice. Some people will abuse it. But I don't think he's going to punish the innocent with the gulity.

Also, I'm sure there were many people who came to faith that day either before their deaths or people who were affected by the attacks indirectly. I have no doubt that God heard EVERY SINGLE prayer that day, from the WTC, from flight 93, and from me and my Mother in Michigan, praying in front of the TV and crying.

It was very hard for me for years to see the pictures of the people who were falling from the WTC. One in particular haunted me up until this year. Then I realized that this poor man's body was hurtling towards the ground, but his soul was safe in God's arms. His arms were full that day, but His love saved the most important part of these people - their souls.

I hope that makes sense. I've read alot about 9/11, because it was really upsetting for me and if something scares me then I start to study it until I understand it and then I'm not afraid anymore.

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Gerard Nadal #fundie

[In the thread, Why Is Mary's Virginity So Important?]

In addition to all that has been posted, I add this. Joseph saw the events surrounding Mary's cousin Elizabeth, her husband having been struck mute for doubting the angel, etc. He received visions after Jesus was born. He was there when the wise men sought out Jesus and brought him gifts. He was there for the great Theophany when the angels sang at the nativity and the shepherds came to give adoration. He witnessed Simeon's recognition of Jesus as Messiah during the presentation in the Temple. And of course, Mary told him of the angel Gabriel's message.

Being the holy and upright man that he was, and given all that had transpired, would Joseph even contemplate intercourse with Mary?

Would any man among us, were we in his shoes?

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catharina #fundie

[various quotes from one thread]

[yes, had I continued with the pregnancy, I would not have lived]

I scanned many of your earlier posts and I can offer sympathy for your many troubles and your confusion, nonetheless whether one doctor or 100 doctors said that (in their opinion) you would die during the pregnancy, they offered their OPINION. You chose to decide life/death in place of allowing God to act in that regard. Your CHOICE was to kill your child and "save" yourself. You acted in the place of God's action. That's the entire story. I hope you are able to return to faithfulness to the teaching of the Church ASAP.


[It´s much the same issues as when there´s a fallopian tube pregnancy - the same arguements emerge. The fetus doesn´t have any possible chance at life, and is endangering the mother´s life by continuing the pregnancy, certain death if the pregnancy advances far.]

Many differences in place - and still abortion is NOT allowed. Get back to me when you've become a moral theologian.


Would you say that it's better for one martyr to to die when two were called to die?

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06convert #fundie

[In a thread about "embryo adoption"]

The Church does teach that surrogacy is morally wrong. This interferes with the natural process of God's creation. A life formed in the marital act of a loving husband and wife. Anything outside of this is morally unacceptable.

Although adoption and implatation is a solution, it's not a morally justifiable solution and it doesn't seem likely the Church will accept this. The reason we don't have an answer from the Church is because it's a very complicated issue. Human beings are playing God with lives, such injustice is difficult to reach a good solution.

The injustice to these embryos is that they are frozen and the moral thing to do is remove from the frozen state, to restore their human dignity. Although this would lead to their death, death would not be the intent, only the result of the injustice they already recieved by being imorally created. They would be like martyrs. This is more likely the way it will have to be. It's difficult to understand and if the Church goes this way, they will get beat up on it.

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sanctareparata #fundie

Regardless of your own personal opinions, if you engage in acts that cause your husband to ejaculate outside of you, then that is point blank masturbation. It is nothing else. And masturbation is ALWAYS GRAVELY SINFUL. It doesn't matter if your ovaries are there are not, it doesn't matter if your uterus is there or not, it doesn't matter if your husband had a vasectomy. Masturbation is masturbation. Some people don't like to hear that the Church is making calls on what can or cannot be done in the privacy of their own bedroom, but I for one am quite happy that She is looking out for our souls. It's one less thing for me to worry and wonder about.

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Pimpsta #fundie

Every week I go to Confession thinking that I have committed mortal sin because I will see a bare-chested woman on an uncensored music video or on reality shows like "Girls of the playboy mansion" or the plastic surgery show "Dr. 90210" or when watching a love scene in a no-under-16 movie or even a national geographic program about an African tribe where the women don't cover themselves. Television and magazines shove nudity in our faces and it just seems impossible to escape it. I feel completely guilty and think I am going to hell after seeing nudity even if it is unintentional. I hate going to Confession each week confessing "seeing impure images", the priest is starting to get the impression that I'm a porn-addict when that's not true at all. Please tell me - Is it a sin to see nudity? Grave or venial? If some of it is not, how do I judge between what is sinful and what is not so I don't accidentally profane the Eucharist when receiving it.

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Shin #fundie

From what I understand smallpox wiped out most of them [The Aztecs].

Though, it's rather obvious the conquistadors were largely in it for conquest and not for much else. That being said, things were not fluffy and gentle back then, and any civilization which boasted about its cannibalism and living human sacrifices (84,000 people to dedicate a pyramid?) was obviously dedicated enough to the devil to deserve some retribution.

You don't commit living sacrifices of that many people to demon gods without building up some weighty spiritual heft against you in the heavens.

And generally disease is often seen as divine retribution. People nowadays don't like to hear it, but scripture is full of it, and apparently even the Aztecs viewed it as such.

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sanctareparata #fundie

[on a thread about what sex acts are permissible in the bedroom for Catholics.]

About the mm [mutual masturbation] - you can do it so long as the man doesn't climax during it. Like the above poster said, it can be a part of foreplay, just so long as it doesn't come to the point of the husband's climax - that has to be in the woman. Always.

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Tietjen #fundie

I've been living in a similar situation now for several years. My wife and I are divorced, but unlike your situation, we remained friends and stayed in contact. The whole time, in the back of my mind I was hoping and praying for reconciliation. I'd get my hopes up time and again only to have them dashed on the curbside. Finally, I told my wife, I'll be here when and if you are ever ready to work on fixing our marriage. She hasn't contacted me since. After the divorce I did fill out the paperwork for a petition of nullity. I prayed over it and told myself, "if this is the way it is supposed to be God, then your will be done." I had decided then and there to leave it to God and accept whatever the Church decided as far as the annulment went. A short time after I submitted the paperwork, I received my answer... there is no grounds to believe that the marriage is invalid. So, I remain married to a wife who has walked away from me, and the Church in order to "find herself" and pursue the "pleasures" of being single; this, after 20 years of marriage. I still wear my wedding band. I continue to be faithful and wait patiently for a miracle. Like you, most people believe that I have moved on. They’re wrong. What God has joined, no man can put asunder. Even men wearing black robes and banging gavels from a bench.