[On the subject of the "Trials of Egypt", the killing of first-borns in particular]
May be the answer lies in MATTHEW 19: 12-15, were little children are brought to Jesus and the disciples try to stop them and Jesus rebukes his disciples and says '' Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.''
Access to the kingdom of heaven is through repenting of your sins, children have not had enough time to sin, so access is immediate. So most of the Egyptian children would have walked straight in. And they died in their sleep, then they did not suffer either. It would have been their parents that suffered for their disobedience.
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Exodus 20:5, Exodus34:7, number 14:18, Deutoronomy 5:9, Deutoronomy 23:2, and numerous other bible verses clearly state, that children inherit the sins from their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and great-great-grandparents.anyone's sins yet, and you have to conclude that your loving and mercyful god personally sent those kids straight to hell and eternal damnation because they happened to be born in a country of which it's leader made decisions that god did not like.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. And you know this how? Odd mushrooms? Funny cigarettes?
And I thought all of humanity was born with the stain of the original sin, so no one is truly 'innocent'?
"children have not had enough time to sin"
No, original sin and sins in the womb mean children are as damned as the worst serial killers.
Those tiny little apple-eating bastards!
So, I guess all fundies should go out and shoot their kid as soon as it's born?
What kind of fucked up morality do these people have.
"Life is worthless, lets masturbate to the idea of death..."
Nice slippery slope to justify abortion, infanticide, sexual explotation of children, syndrome of Medea, etc........
How did Mary get into heaven, she never sinned.
You must be one of those "do it your self" christian heritics.
Surely the Egyptians suffered because when Pharaoh was about to release the Israelites God 'hardened Pharaoh's heart', not once but seven times. How can you reconcile that with a universal loving God? Sounds more like a tribal war-God to me.
Off topic, the Egyptian's cattle have the misfortune to get killed twice, all of them in the fifth plague and then the firstborn of them again in the tenth.
Infanticidal god!
How do yu know the children died in their sleep?
How do you know how their deaths were actually caused?
And what of their parents? It was Pharaoh who was the villain of the piece, not the ordinary Egyptian.
I take this as evidence of an all too human rejoicing in the suffering of others. Today we would call it Schadenfreude. The same with Miriam's Song when the Egyptians soldiers were (supposedly) drowned in the Sea of Reeds. (Red Sea is WRONG!) This is reminiscent of the enjoyment the ancient Romans got out of the bloody shows in their arenas.
So, if you are pissed at someone and want to punish them, it's OK to kill their kids so they will suffer??
You and your smug self-righteousness annoy me greatly. How about I send Kali over to smite your kids and then send them off to be reincarnated?
I mean, if it's OK for your god to kill kids whose parents don't worship him and then steal their little souls for imprisonment, why can't Kali do it too? Mebbe they will reincarnate as gay people or bonobos or used car salesmen?
Xotan wrote:..when the Egyptians soldiers were (supposedly) drowned in the Sea of Reeds.
Believers in Biblical inerrancy also need to explain how the Egyptian charioteers chased the Israelites when God had just killed all their horses in the fifth plague.
In recent news from Montgomery County, MD, a man who was separated from his wife drowned their three children in a hotel bathroom during their court-ordered visitation with him. He was carrying out his threat to make her suffer because, he said, he knew living out her life after the children were murdered would be the worst way he could "punish" her.
The public reacted with horror, he is despised, people are calling for his execution (unlikely in Maryland), and the court system that failed to take his threats seriously and forced the visitation is being rightfully criticized.
How is what bible god did not thousands of times more horrendous?
The point is that God killed them anyway.
You say it yourself that those children had no time to sin, but God decided he wanted to kill them just to show the Egyptian people how hardcore he is.
And here I thought Matthew 19: 12-15 was Jesus's attempt to condone pedophilia...oh the magic of interpretation! (In reality, I was actually thinking that this passage was suggesting that children are able to learn, and understand aphorism as much as any human, that they could learn the teachings of Christ, and, according to your worldview, they could go to hell for rejecting it! No free rides!).
But, if you actually believe your interpretation, you could use it justify killing children, and you should also have no problem with abortion. Food for thought.
"Access to the kingdom of heaven is through repenting of your sins, children have not had enough time to sin, so access is immediate."
Bullshit. Your theology claims--and has for quite some time--that everyone is "born sinful." There's no escape clause other than belief in Jebus, remember?
@solomongrundy
It's worse than that... they also need to explain how the hell the Egyptians had chariots anyway since they didn't have the farking wheel at that point in their history.
... and how they found these non-existent wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea. ^.^
Access to the kingdom of heaven is through repenting of your sins, children have not had enough time to sin, so access is immediate.
That's not Christianity's position. They claim everyone sins and access to the kingdom of heaven is through faith and the undeserved mercy of God. Neither Catholics nor Protestants claim to know what happens to children who die, especially before baptism.
Wayne fails at theology of his own religion, as well as history, logic, empathy, and common sense. EPIC FAIL.
Or you worship a psychotic mass murderer. Either way.
By the way, the bible says nothing about an "age of innocence". Does anyone know where this comes from? I know the Mormons believe in it, but were they the first to come up with it?
"Access to the kingdom of heaven is through repenting of your sins, children have not had enough time to sin, so access is immediate."
We now know that fetuses often touch their genital area while in the womb. If these vile children had committed the foul deed of self-pollution while in utero, then they clearly were far too corrupt and lust-crazed to be worthy of God's Kingdom.
So why was Richard III so despised by his people for ordering his nephews to be smothered to death as they slept? In Shakespeare's play, out of all the murders that Richard has committed, that one crime is proclaimed to be the worst. No matter how jaded or depraved the English could have been at the time, that one crime - the act of killing a child - was one they could not stomach, even if the princes "died in their sleep."
CT wrote:
It's worse than that... they also need to explain how the hell the Egyptians had chariots anyway since they didn't have the farking wheel at that point in their history.
There is no 'at that point in their history '. There is NO archaeological evidence for the exodus (or the captivity if it comes to that) AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY.
Edit: Sorry for shouting :-(
The usually prescribed method for killing small children in those days was to take them by the ankles and swing them at a wall effectively crushing their skulls (BROKEN SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE). Other methods (stabbing, smothering, slitting throats, drowning, etc) were no doubt also employed. The whole country would have been in turmoil; people screaming, fighting back, grabbing their kids and running, begging for mercy. Small children would be terrified, and confused and that's exactly the state of mind they were in when they died.
So, Wayne, kindly stop trying to sugarcoat such atrocities and just Shut The Fuck Up!
Damn. It must be such a calm life being a fundie. You can explain away anything in any way you choose, regardless of reality. If it doesn't fit, you move it around. If it doesn't make an ounce of sense, you remove pieces or add them, all upon your own whim.
No wonder there are so many fundies. It has got to be a much easier way to live than reality.
Apparently your parents were so conservative they never even let you watch The Ten Commandments ; when all the firstborn start dying the adult son of the Pharoah's guard falls down dead. Not just children were killed in the Plaugue of the Firstborn, wayne . (At least, as far as I know the Bible itself never references only children dying, but a popular cultural misunderstanding says it does.) ALL firstborns throughout the land were killed, "...from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle." Exodus 12:29
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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