Barachem #fundie #senpai_noticed

Barachem #fundie #senpai_noticed_us rr-bb.com

Anyway, these people say they're openminded, but in reality they are closeminded and will never consider our point of view, all the while while condemning us for being closedminded even though we do understand their view.
As an ex-atheist i'm ashamed for the extreme stance they take, the perpetual antagonism they take towards us, as if they're angry that mommy and daddy took them to church each sunday and now see a need to pay it back.
I never had this, as i was never forced to go to church and just believed that there was no God.
Then the Holy Spirit worked on my heart and opened it for Jesus, because i was actually open to other possibilities, as i asked for evidence and God Himself gave it to me, by changing my heart miraculously and using many different people to bring me to Jesus.
God be praised.

62 comments

old comment by Zabimaru

I'm from a very atheistic country. I was never forced to go to church. I'm not angry at my parents or anyone like that, nor am I angry at all Christians. And I don't complain about all Christians.

I complain about the fundie Rapture Readians who think that the rapture will happen in their lifetime, so there isn't any reason to conserve our environment.

I complain about all the fundie parents who let their kids die instead of taking them to a doctor/letting them have a blood transfusion.

I complain about all the Hovindtards who think that Creationism is a scientific theory and want to destroy the next generation's understanding of science by having it taught as such.

I complain about the "ex-gay"-ministries who have ruined the lives and relationships of several of my friends, by convincing them and their families that their "urges" are evil and sinful, and that they can and should change.

In short, I complain about a lot of things. But I don't have an extreme stance, nor a perpetual antagonism. I just complain about the real trouble, the real problems that fundies of different religions cause.

old comment by Wehpudicabok

Oi! Barachem! I don't know if you're still lurking here, but listen up. I don't know what percentage of the Netherlands is Christian, but I do know you can't claim that you actions are based on Christian values if they are not shared by a majority of Christians. They are values based on your own subset of Christianity. When you refer to that subset, you may well be a minority. (Somehow I suspect you would be in the majority in the U.S. anyway, but that's beside the point.) Nevertheless, bigotry and intolerance are neither values espoused by your Christ nor values that deserve to be protected under any national law. You have the freedom to be as Christian as you like, provided you don't infringe on others' rights. Remember, many gays are Christian too. They just don't subscribe to the same branch of Christianity that you do.

old comment by DevilsChaplain

"One of my rebuttals did shut them up in this specific thread"
Are you insane? Where did you shut anyone up?

"but a mistake is made when one tries to rebut a christian from the Netherlands."
So?

"Not only is this specimen a former atheist"
1. That could be a lie, after all, many fundies (like Kirk Cameron) claim to be "former atheists."
2. Even if you ARE a former atheist, how does that lend credence to your ridiculous beliefs?

"but he's also part of a very small minority of fundamentalist christians in the now atheistic Netherlands"
And he also refers to himself in the third-person because he's an egomaniacal jackass.

"who do face a mild form of discrimination from spiteful ex-christian atheist youth."
A mild form of discrimination such as when I say those faggots will burn in Hell and they call me an asshole. Hmph!

"Anyway, these people say they're openminded, but in reality they are closeminded and will never consider our point of view"
They never try re-reading our mythic fairy-tales and they never try to be as bigoted as we are against gays and women and non-believers and people of other faiths. How narrow-minded!

"As an ex-atheist i'm ashamed for the extreme stance they take"
As a human being, I'm ashamed you're alive.

"the perpetual antagonism they take towards us, as if they're angry that mommy and daddy took them to church each sunday and now see a need to pay it back"
Or they keep coming to college campuses with huge placards and megaphones and proclaim we're going to burn for eternity.

"Then the Holy Spirit worked on my heart and opened it for Jesus"
Because open-heart surgery is a snap for Jesus.

old comment by Geno

"...as if they're angry that mommy and daddy took them to church each sunday and now see a need to pay it back. "

People are angry at fundies for so many other reasons. Perhaps it's how they spew hate and incite violence. Perhaps it's their constant holier-than-thou act of moral superiority when they continue to spew hatred and incite violence. Perhaps it's how they shrug off their hypocrisy. Perhaps it's how many of them purposefully lie. Perhaps it's how many of them insist on debating when they know nothing on the subject they're debating on. Perhaps it's how they are intent on taking away civil rights for others. Perhaps it's how they take pleasure in the thought of others suffering for eternity.

..I can go on forever. My point being there are MANY other reasons.

old comment by Illuminatalie

but a mistake is made when one tries to rebut a christian from the Netherlands.
A mistake is made when one tries to converse with a self-evidently delusional moron.

Not only is this specimen a former atheist, but he's also part of a very small minority of fundamentalist christians in the now atheistic Netherlands, who do face a mild form of discrimination from spiteful ex-christian atheist youth.
And he refers to himself in the 3rd person, like he was royalty. See what I was saying about delusional. What's a "mild form of discrimination"? People having enough self respect to point out your most obviously ignorant statements?

Anyway, these people say they're openminded, but in reality they are closeminded
You say the sky is blue but in reality it's green with orange polka dots.

As an ex-atheist i'm ashamed for the extreme stance they take
If you're no longer an atheist, you can't pretend you're ashamed on behalf of all other atheists. KThxBai.

i asked for evidence and God Himself gave it to me
Well I asked for a hovercraft and a box of eels, and God Himself gave it to me. Maybe I should have asked for evidence instead.

old comment by Orion

According to Wikipedia 34% of surveyed citizens believed in a god while 27% believed there was no god, life force or mystical force (37% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force"). Although apparently only 20% are "religiously affiliated".
So it would seem that Atheists are not exactly a majority in "secular" Netherlands either eh Barachem? Or were you hoping all the Americans wouldn't be able to call you on your bullshit because you're so far away?
Also being a former Atheist lends you no credibility, just as being a former Christian doesn't make you a better atheist.
See a psychiatrist about that persecution complex.
Oh and if you show your damn face on fstdt again be prepared to actually offer more than one comment before running and hiding behind the draconian RR mods.

old comment by Dr. Shrinker

Your definition of "discrimination" appears to be, "I have to co-exist with people who do not share my point of view." It is the same definition flaunted by Christian fundamentalists in the US. Neither you nor they know anything about what real discrimination is.

If you want to learn what discrimination is, come to the US and interact with the gay and lesbian community of any major city. Listen to them when they talk about losing jobs, being rejected by their families and in some cases being physically assaulted for who they are. I am not demanding that you condone their lifestyle, just listen and understand that they are human too.

Of course, I doubt you would sully your pure nature by doing so. Sure Jesus associated almost exclusively with "sinners," looking after their needs and giving them succor, but that doesn't mean you have to, right? Of course not, you seem to think you are too good for that, another trait you share with American fundamentalists.

old comment by doomie 22

Barachem, you didn't give any rebuttals. You made one hit-and-run post with no followup. Furthermore, I counted at least five well thought out criticisms of your post. I also noticed that all those who responded invited you to defend your claims, which you did not do.

Also, I think you misunderstood the meaning of "open minded". being open minded does not mean believing anything anyone tells you just so they will like you. being open minded means allowing someone to state their views and making a conclusion about what they say based solely on merit. We are open minded; you are free to come to FSTDT and say whatever you like. However, unlike Rapture Ready, you are not free from criticism.

Keep this in mind. We would be happy to have you back.

old comment by The L

Barachem, have you looked at that thread lately? It would appear that you did not have the last word, as you claim.

You do not seem to have the same definition of open-mindedness that we have here at FSTDT. We define it as "a knowledge and understanding of others' points of view, coupled with the acceptance that they hold these points of view, even if you don't agree with those points of view at all." I could be wrong, but you seem to define open-mindedness as "willingness to agree with my particular point of view, regardless of whether they understand it or not."

I have absolutely nothing against Christianity. It is an inspiring religion that can bring about positive change and is good for a lot of people. However, many people have misused the message of Christianity and turned it into a vehicle of hatred, doom-mongering, fear-mongering, and persecution. And as long as that happens, I will speak out against those people. I do this because I was once a devout Christian, and one of the many reasons I left was out of shame at being lumped together with those who would do evil in the name of a figure meant to represent Good. Wise Christians would do well to cast out the crazed zealots among them.

old comment by David B.

"Anyway, these people say they're openminded, but in reality they are closeminded and will never consider our point of view, all the while while condemning us for being closedminded even though we do understand their view."

I was open-minded enough to attend church even as an atheist, to discuss his beliefs with the minister, and my beliefs too.

I am well aware than some Christians understand the atheist view, but then you get the one's who call it a religion, or Satanism, or an offshoot of Islam. If you think these people "understand atheism" then you also do not.

"as if they're angry that mommy and daddy took them to church each sunday and now see a need to pay it back."

I was never "taken" to church, and did not start going regularly until long after I lost all belief in gods. Although an atheist, I became aware that what I thought I knew about other religions was, at best, mostly second-hand. So I visited several churches until I found one that didn't repudiate me straight away (which in itself taught me a lot about "Christian open-mindedness"), talked to people of other faiths about their beliefs, and eventually decided to study comparative religions after completing my other degrees.

All it got me was a qualification so worthless I don't even mention it on my CV and a skip-full of Goddidit's for answers. As I had long suspected, all modern religions are based in their entirety on faith, there is not one shred of empirical proof for any of it. What is more, where empirical evidence contradicts their faith most either suppress/ignore it or lie to discredit it. Few were those who would accept that they were in error and change their beliefs, fewer still were those who would even consider abandoning them.

Ask a fundie what would convince them there was no god, and the answer you most commonly get is "Nothing."

Ask an atheist what would convince them there was a god, and the answer is frequently "Evidence."

Open-minded is advertising your philosophy with a poster campaign stating "there is probably no god". So where then is there a similar poster proclaiming "Jesus might be the way, the truth and the light"? What Muslim says "There is likely no god but Allah, and Mohammed might possibly be his prophet"?

old comment by GigaGuess

I am quoted several times on the fstdt forums and have given some rebuttals.
One of my rebuttals did shut them up in this specific thread: http://fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?q=53327
Seems they couldn't criticize the truth.
Uhm...I know for a fact that I gave a rebuttal there. I don't wish to bother posting such on RR...not that I fear any of you...more that I'm fully aware that saying the word "gay" without "s will all burn in hell" will result in an instaban and the post will be deleted. You guys talk about open mindedness, but you really piss all over what you preach...

It's one thing speaking out towards one of the "christian majority" in the U.S., but a mistake is made when one tries to rebut a christian from the Netherlands.
Not only is this specimen a former atheist, but he's also part of a very small minority of fundamentalist christians in the now atheistic Netherlands, who do face a mild form of discrimination from spiteful ex-christian atheist youth.
Yeah...you march around telling people that they'll burn in hell for being who they are in a more secular environment, and they aren't as shy about telling your bigoted ass to shut up. Guess what, that's not discrimination. It's people pushing against the hatred you're throwing around.

Anyway, these people say they're openminded, but in reality they are closeminded and will never consider our point of view, all the while while condemning us for being closedminded even though we do understand their view.
Oh, we'll hear you, and we'll talk to you. That's open minded, honey. Open minded does not mean rolling over and going "Oh, sure, we really are evil...whatever you say."

As an ex-atheist i'm ashamed for the extreme stance they take, the perpetual antagonism they take towards us, as if they're angry that mommy and daddy took them to church each sunday and now see a need to pay it back.
Please. If you really think that's what motivates our beliefs, I'm gonna have to call a big fat Ninth Commandment on that ex-atheist thing.

I never had this, as i was never forced to go to church and just believed that there was no God.
Then the Holy Spirit worked on my heart and opened it for Jesus, because i was actually open to other possibilities, as i asked for evidence and God Himself gave it to me, by changing my heart miraculously and using many different people to bring me to Jesus.
So you freely admit that for us to be open minded, we have to open up and swallow whatever the church gives us, no matter how absurd...like God would make people purely to condemn test to see if they're really worthy of his love and salvation...never mind that he should know exactly how it should turn out, and the fact that in doing so he condemns us to a life of misery and dissatisfaction. But hey, it's not you that has to suffer, eh?

old comment by Swedish Pagan

First, I am not from the US, I am European just like you, I have been to The Netherlands once when I was a teenager. To my knowledge the people there are more tolerant than usual of most anything. For instance, it was harder for Hitler to make people not liking the Jews, or to betray their hiding places to the Nazis.

Most people there are saying they do not belong to any specific church. That is NOT the same as all these people being atheists. You can be Christian on your own, worshipping in God's beautiful nature, or just meet in someone's home to talk about Jesus.

Sweden is also not that outwardly religious and the Church and State have mostly kept their distance, for decades. However, now that the Christian Democrats have gotten into the government, the Church is slowly being sneaked in the back door. More and more talk of "morality" is heard here and there. It feels like we are going back fifty years or so, and it is rather scary. "Learn from the past, but move forward into the future" is a very sane doctrine.

Barachem #fundie #senpai_noticed_us rr-bb.com

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