Pradeep Tilak #fundie

Pradeep Tilak #fundie examiner.com

Christians believe the following:

-God exists
-Everyone knows that God exists
-The unbeliever suppresses that God exists because he prefers sin
-The unbeliever makes up reasons to justify his unbelief, implicitly or explicitly
-These excuses seem perfectly fine until God reveals himself to the person individually
-This revelation is present to us in the Bible

Christians cannot hate atheists. They cannot marginalize them either. Every Christian knows that he himself was a God-hater, in subtle or not-so-subtle ways, before God saved him.

The Christian is grateful to God for saving him and hopes for God to save the atheist as he hopes for God to save everyone believing in false gods.

Atheists put up reason as their strong face in opposing the Christian norm. But is atheism reasonable? The secularization of America has provided a seed-bed for a God-less world as the basis for life today.

Yet, even the atheists must borrow a Christian worldview in order to think and act rationally. Atheism has no way to ground reason. If we came about by chance, our reason and thinking is a random product of chance, with no strong foundation for thought.

49 comments

old comment by David B.

Wow, Christians are sure wrong about a lot of things then!

Personally, I tend to avoid the Christian worldview as much as possible, mostly because it's so twisted it leads people to think stuff like "everyone knows God exists" and "the unbeliever suppresses that God exists because he prefers sin" which are patently incorrect.

Instead of "godidit" as grounds for reason, a premise so shakey and vague that it leads different followers to wildly different and often contradictory conclusions, all based - they think - on the sound footing of "divine reason", I use a solid evidential epistemology that need only assume the existence of the objective world to which I aim to apply it.

I need not even take that assumption on faith, since I am able to determine that the objective reality I am 'assuming' is capable of phenomena that I am not, so at the very least the objective part is verifiable.

As a strong foundation for thought, "this is how the perceived reality around me actually and testably appears to operate" is considerably better than "a magic man made it do that and I should listen to what bronze-age goat fu^H^H herders had to say about him."

old comment by dionysus

Everyone knows that God exists

I don't. And I'll wager that neither does anyone else. Besides, if you KNOW God exists then what's the point of faith?

The unbeliever suppresses that God exists because he prefers sin

While many of us disagree with you on what is considered a sin (Killing and stealing are definitely immoral, but I don't agree that a man loving a man is a bad thing. And in my opinion, NOT liking lesbians is a sin.), we generally don't enjoy doing bad things to people. We're atheists, not sociopaths.

-These excuses seem perfectly fine until God reveals himself to the person individually
-This revelation is present to us in the Bible

Well then, your god chose a shitty way to reveal himself. Moses got the benefit of a burning bush talking to him, Paul got a vision, even Satan talks to God like a poker buddy (see Job). Why do we have to settle on translations of translations of third-hand accounts written decades or even centuries after the alleged event in one of many different holy books?

The secularization of America has provided a seed-bed for a God-less world as the basis for life today.

That we are the world's superpower, one of many free nations, that gives rights to minorities, that has modern medicine and technology? Oh the horror. Try living in Uganda and THEN try to complain about secular America.

Yet, even the atheists must borrow a Christian worldview in order to think and act rationally.

Science, bitches. And there's a ton of philosophies out there that can allow a person to lead a good life. Philosophy was invented in Pagan Greece. So was Democracy for that matter.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"Christians cannot hate atheists. They cannot marginalize them either. Every Christian knows that he himself was a God-hater, in subtle or not-so-subtle ways, before God saved him."

"Yet, even the atheists must borrow a Christian worldview in order to think and act rationally. Atheism has no way to ground reason. If we came about by chance, our reason and thinking is a random product of chance, with no strong foundation for thought."

You of all people should remember this quote, and it's source (emphasis added):

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

-Mohandas K. 'Mahatma' Gandhi

And as for "even the atheists must borrow a Christian worldview in order to think and act rationally", I suggest you don't click the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Ancient_Babylon

Now, an Emeritus Professor of History I'm not, nor would I ever pretend to be. Yet, even I know that the Code of Hammurabi - the source of the 'Golden Rule' - is from ancient Babylon. Almost two millenia before your 'Jesus' even existed.

And at least we Atheists aren't so bereft of culture & history, that we have to steal the ancient Pagan Winter Solstice, and Eostre festivals, rehashing them as Christmas & Easter, and claiming such as our own.

Is stealing other cultures' traditions a rational act? I refer you to your own 8th Commandment.

...oh, and to get one back for the Wiccans, let's do a Christian act of stealing on you:

-Haruhi Suzumiya exists
-Everyone knows that Haruhi Suzumiya exists
-The unbeliever suppresses that Haruhi Suzumiya exists because he prefers the unseen (and therefore nonexistent) YHWH. At least Haruhi Suzumiya can be seen in the anime series.
-The unbeliever makes up reasons to justify his unbelief, implicitly or explicitly
-These excuses seem perfectly fine until Haruhi Suzumiya reveals herself to the person individually
-This revelation is present to us in "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" light novel

[/Sauce for the Goose]

Here endeth the lesson.

old comment by Papabear

"-God exists"

Please provide proof.

"-Everyone knows that God exists"

Please provide proof. Until then, please do not tell me what I know, as you patently have no idea.

"-The unbeliever suppresses that God exists because he prefers sin"

Until you prove that God exists, we can safely assume there is no such thing as sin.

"-The unbeliever makes up reasons to justify his unbelief, implicitly or explicitly"

I have evidence to support my unbelief.

"-These excuses seem perfectly fine until God reveals himself to the person individually"

Yup, if God indeed revealed himself. Your delusions of God are not proof to me.

"-This revelation is present to us in the Bible"

The Bible is a badly written, badly edited, collection of ancient stories composed and collected by almost entirely by unknown authors. Most of the good ideas in the Bible were present in many societies which pre-date the Bible book authors. It has no authority but that which the deluded give it.

old comment by Blue the Thief

Assassins believe the following:

- Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
- Everyone knows that nothing is true, everything is permitted.
-The Templar suppresses this truth, because he prefer to control others.
-The Templars makes up reasons to justify his crimes, implicitly or explicitly.
-These excuses seem perfectly fine until Altair reveals his hidden blade to the Templar individually.
-This revelation is present to us in the 'Assassins Creed' series.

Mad men believe the following:

- Sheogorath exists
- Everyone knows that Sheogorath exists.
- The sane man suppresses that Sheogorath exists, because he hates cheese.
- The sane man makes up reasons to justify his hatred, implicitly or explicitly.
- These excuses seem perfectly fine until Sheogorath reveals himself to the person individually.
- This revelation is present to us in the book 'Wabbajack'.

old comment by Philbert McAdamia

Every Christian knows that he himself was a God-hater, in subtle or not-so-subtle ways, before God saved him.

There are so many of these fundie "ex-God haters" and "I used to be an atheist"s - now it appears that it's every damned one of them.
But I'm worried. Since I'm still in my "God-hater" mode - the implication being that at some point this God fella will expose himself to me (the pervert), perhaps on my deathbed, and I will cop to The Wager, no doubt upon bowed knee.
I can only hope to beat him to the punch and kick off before he gets to me. The fucker might be after my soul, and I aim to save my soul. He is pretty damned slow, and we know about his aim, I think I can whup him.
Rather I commend my self to Darwin or Satan or who/whatever. At least to the worms.

old comment by Canadiest

"-Everyone knows that God exists"

One of the worst mindsets of fundyism. This concept of inherent knowledge, a fact so strong and obvious it must be followed by enforced indoctrination to teach them what they already know? That's a huge level of hypocracy.

They know this isn't true because they invest so much into witnessing and and demanding church support. That statement is a weapon to use against unbelievers, to demonize them. His next two points revealing that attack.
"-The unbeliever suppresses that God exists because he prefers sin
-The unbeliever makes up reasons to justify his unbelief, implicitly or explicitly"

Just not believing leaves room for doubt due to lack of evidence, an understandable disbelief. They want you to believe non-believe is purposely dishonest, so they can promote hate and distrust.

George Carlin was right, religion is the biggest producer of bullshit in history.

“Christians believe the following:”
-We’re right.
-Everyone else lies.
-And lies.
-Lies some more.
-Liar, liar, liar.
-AND, their lies actually support that WE are right.

“Yet, even the atheists must borrow a Christian worldview in order to think and act rationally.”
No, Bubbles. In OUR world, there’s no god, so your moral system and rationality is still the product of human beings, not gods.

"If we came about by chance, our reason and thinking is a random product of chance,”
No, the process of trial and error isn’t just ‘chance.’ Formalized trial and error and tracking the results is less so.