Zealous Zeth,
Thank you for responding, I was hoping to discuss this matter further.
"Oh, be sure I have. I meet atheists everyday. I live in Sweden. My parent's are ex-communists (marxist-leninist maoists) and met a lot's of such people when I was young. Only I, a Lebanese druze friend of mine and a Lutheran girl are the only truly religious people in my class. The rest 24 are atheists or agnostics."
Well, I am glad that you have met atheists. It seems you have a different "sect" of atheism in your country, an atheism flavored with Communism. That's quite different from the atheists I know and befriend in the U.S.
"Basicly I have got atheism and godlessness all around me. I know quite a lot of atheists and how cold they are at the inside. (if not at the inside)"
This may come as a shocker to you, but NOT ALL atheists are cold on the inside. One atheist I know is an incredibly generous, considerate person. She is an atheist simply because religion has no attraction for her. She respects the rights of others to hold to their beliefs, so long as they are not being forced upon her. My best friend is an agnostic, and he is more Christ-like than most Christians I know.
And, on an even more personal note, my uncle is a an atheist, due to bad experiences with the church as an adolescent. My uncle is far from "cold on the inside," he would give his life for any member of our family. Your generalizations about atheists may apply to some dogmatic religion-bashers, but your are dead wrong when it comes to the average atheist. They are people just like you and I. Somehow, I think you know a lot about atheists, but you haven't taken the time to learn FROM them, to hear their stories, and empathize with their situation.
"And I know that they must all die if the world shall have peace."
I'm sorry, but that kind of thinking never leads to anything good. Once upon a time, a group of people were killed because they were followers of a different religion. 6 million of them were killed, in fact. Plus, when have you seen atheists starting world wars, imperialistic regimes, and crashing airplanes into buildings? A whole lot less compared to our theist brethren, I'll wager. Is is right and just, then, to kill atheists, just because they do nto believe as we do? Your statement that "atheists must die" leads to a way of thinking that is frighteningly similar to that of Islamic Fundamentalists. Only the name of your god and the target of your hate is different.
"Since you asked, I have no trouble with finding ONE bible. I have seven, three in swedish, two in english (nkjv and drv), one in german (luther's) and one in latin. (vulgate)"
I didn't really think you would have trouble finding a bible, as you quoted from the book in your other post. I didn't expect you to have so many, though. That is one impressive collection! :-)
"That what's Church life is for, and why the Catholic Church even exists. However, in your heresy you have totally misunderstood the meaning of what he said."
I was raised Catholic as well (and I still am in many respects). I was taught that loving your enemies means that we empathize with them, try to understand them, and appreciate them as fellow human beings. Oh yes, and let's not forget what Jesus said on this matter:
Matthew 5:43-4 But I say to you, love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
"Loving your enemies doesn't mean that you can't make them feel bad if it will help them to stop sinning or just become better people. It doesn't even mean that you can't kill them in war if they would be a threat to Christendom, as Jesus also said: "Love thy neighbour". (my neighbour not being God's enemies but other Christians and and especialy Catholics)"
Zeth, calling people scum is not going to make them listen to you, yet you did so in your original post. What you have said would not make me want to turn from sinning, it would actually drive me further from the faith if I were an atheist. Jesus taught us to do good to our enemies so that they may see our goodness and seek to emulate us. As a Catholic, this was the question I was always asked in Sunday School: "Are you acting in ways that make others want to be like you, and in turn like Jesus?"
So, are you advocating the killing of atheists, because they are "scum?" You know, it is always easier to kill people if you believe they are less human than you. Calling them hurtful names is the beginning of that violent, satanic path.
I have a question for you, then. Is it a sin for me to love the atheists as my neighbors, since they are not Christians? Remember,
Luke 6:32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them."
I daresay claiming that only Christians are our neighbors is far more heretical than what I have said here.
And, because it needs to be said, killing is NOT the answer! Violence in the name of the Lord is not part of Jesus' way, as He said,
John 18:36 "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."
"He was and is. Just look at what he did in the temple. He scourged his enemies with wips, the same people which he compared to snakes and goats."
In the temple, Jesus disrupted the manifestations of corruption in front of the sinner. He did not kill the sinners. Also, Jesus did not scourge the men with whips, as it says here:
John 2:15 "So he made a whip out of cords, and drove them all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle"
He whipped the livestock, not the men. As I said before, a violent God of war is not a God I want to follow. Quite frankly, the "man of war" image of God fills me with revulsion, not love and adoration as the God of Christ does.
"Which doesn't have to be bad since we really don't need more liberal heretics and infiltrators in the Church."
I think you misunderstood me. Perhaps I was not clear enough, I apologize. I was trying to point out that the violent deity you described would not and does not cause people to be attracted to Christianity. Rather, it would cause atheists who considered converting to be repulsed by God and Christ. It is a self-defeating theology. Besides, who would want a tyrant god? How could we love and serve a tyrant of our own free will from our hearts?
""Rational Christian" Aka liberal heretic?"
If it makes you feel superior to call me that, who am I to stop you? But, in short, no, that is not what I am.
"Rational Christian" a.k.a I am a devoted follower of Christ who treats all people as my full equals, regardless of creed, or lack thereof. If I am a heretic because I love my fellow human beings, then so be it.
"Remember what saint James said: "Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" (James 2:24, DRV)"
Yes, I'm quite familiar with that verse, it is a favorite of mine. I frequently use it to counter the "sola fide" arguments of Evangelical and Protestant Fundamentalists. Forgive me, I don't understand why you are bringing this verse into the conversation. How is it relevant to our discussion?
Lastly, please, let go of your hate. Hatred is worthless. And at any rate, Paul reminds us that hatred will keep us from inheriting the Kingdom.
God bless you as well.
Yours in the Lord Jesus Christ,
Telamon
