jshm22 #fundie

jshm22 #fundie answerbag.com

Answering the question "Did god make Atheists"

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There are no such things as atheists their just theists living in denial.

"Atheism" is a negative affirmation and we know that logically you cannot prove a negative.

There are only two logical positions you can hold - theist or agnostic. "atheism" is the man made cult.

68 comments

old comment by DavidS

Atheists are people who do actually believe in god (just theists) who are pretending not to believe in god (denial)? What is the motive here? Where did you come up with this stupid idea?

Firstly, atheism is not a negative affirmation it is a passive state. If one does not actively believe in any of the current available or past gods then s/he is not theist, or atheist.

Theism and agnosticism are not opposites. Gnostic and agnostic are opposites. And if one is agnostic of a god they cannot be theist therefore by default are atheist.

So if one is theist then they must be gnostic. To be gnostic you must have justified true believe which no theist does. Therefore, theists are atheists in denial.

old comment by K-Bizz

@His4Life

And if Satan is a (pardon the pun) devilishly sexy woman? What then?

Also, your god must have some pretty hefty self esteem issues if he'd punish people who are otherwise good for not believing in him, or having been unable to make a decision in that regard. Handing down an eternal punishment for someone not recognizing your existence because you never made your existence apparent is evil.

Don't tell me I can't judge your god either. According to your holy book, the tree of knowledge granted humanity the knowledge of good and evil. Therefore, under your beliefs, I know what evil is and can identify it, and your god fits the bill, especially if he'd have the devil ass-rape me.

old comment by Canadiest

@Phillip-George and @His4Life.

Study the history of your Bible, how it was assembled and where it got it's material. it's a compilation of myths from cultures who had many and different Gods. And it's the entire base of your religion, there is no evidence for it's claims and it has spread only by force and indoctrination. These are the facts.

And if there's no evidence for something, absolutely none, logic dictates it doesn't exist, logic is not a term of absolute knowledge, it is a term of the most probable. Or; logic, or reckoning, doesn't have to be absolutely correct but it's the best process of using all available evidence to arrive at a conclusion.

Christians who understand the term and are capable of utilizing the process don't use it to back up their faith.

William Laine Craig, Christian philophicer, a redundant term for preacher, bastardizes it by claiming 'we know the universe is not eternal, science knows this, therefore it is only logical that there's an eternal componant to the universe'
I bloody well, flippin well don't think so!
That's an unsubstantiated assertion, the very opposite of a logical conclusion or reckoning. Might as well say Jack Kirby's Eternals must exist as their exploits have been written about by many over time.

old comment by K-Bizz

@His4Life the she-devil thing was a joke, really. Just as I lack belief in any god, I also lack belief in any and all devils or otherwise malevolent supernatural forces.

Speaking of which, even if god is not actively inflicting the punishment he is ultimately responsible. Just a trial judge is not an executioner, he did ultimately hand down the sentence and is responsible for the death of the convict. Even if we say god merely allows my punishment in hell (all because I'm not convinced of his existence, mind you) he has the power to stop my eternal torment, suspend my sentence, allow me to make amends in the afterlife, or convince me here on earth of his existence. Since he would rather let me suffer forever, he is evil. You never countered my ability to judge god, so I assume you agree with it.

To me, a good person is someone who respects the rights of others. As long as you don't hurt anyone by your actions, you're a good person. This provides a lot of leeway, I don't care about anyone's sexual orientation, or whatever else happens between consenting adults (save infidelity, which is a betrayal which can cause deep and lasting emotional trauma to others). I don't care about drug use as long as no one gets hurt. Lastly, I don't care about religious preference, you can believe what you want. Bonus points can be earned by improving the lives of those around you.

I take issue with this:
"your master the devil"
The devil is not my master, I don't serve entities I don't believe in.

old comment by Woody

@His4Life God is referred to as masculine in bible texts in English. The bible was not written in English. Most references/names for God are masculine in Hebrew but some are feminine. Moreover, this is just one tiny discrepancy in your beliefs, when you read up there are hundreds more of these discrepancies.

You do not know your bible or religion as well as you think you do. What about researching the bible by reading it, cross-checking with original texts and learning who put it together and why? After all Christians claim to be living their lives by its teaching, this should be the minimum requirement to call yourself a Christian. You will find the bible greatly at odds from the Sunday sermons in your church. Do you know where a lot of the most passionate atheists come from, they are former Christians who read the bible and found out what a disgusting creature your purported Gawd is.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

Jonathan Edwards.

Your call, jism(IQ)22.

@Troll4Life

Charles Darwin: in his early years, was in training to join the Church of England's clergy. From his discoveries to his death, he was an Agnostic. Today, the C-of-E's Westminster Abbey (PROTIP: Church of England = Protestant Christianity):

image

Your call II.

There are many forms of 'Truth', otherwise there'd be just one denomination of Christianity. If they can't be all right, then therefore they're all wrong.

...oh yeah, one more thing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/opinion/sunday/american-christianity-and-secularism-at-a-crossroads.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

And reduced to the good ol' 'Turn or Burn', especially your well-worn Freudian spin on such, whenever you right-wing Fundamentalist Christains don't get your own way - or Reality doesn't bend to your will - is certainly getting more converts to see things your way, isn't it?! [/mega-sarcasm]

Threats are the last resort of those who have LOST the argument. And you lost it - in more ways than one - ages ago, dearie.

We Atheists have [i]nothing[/i] to threaten you fundies with. And it's exactly that: Nothing. The fact that there's no afterlife (prove us wrong otherwise; 1 Thessalonians 5:21 [KJV] forces you to), when you're dead, you're dead; Finito, Goodnight Vienna, GAME OVER, that terrifies you, because you like your 'life' too much (prove us wrong otherwise: commit suicide, seeing as you lot always say you're 'In this world, but not of it' - and Suicide being a 'Sin' is purely Catholic doctrine - thus getting to 'Heaven' quicker), thus the delusional 'security blankie' called 'Faith' & 'Belief'. That's how scared of Death you really are. Prove us wrong otherwise: Kill Yourself now. If you don't, you don't have much faith in your 'Faith', therefore you admit I'm right about you lot - re. that 'security blankie' - and you prove we Atheists right regardless.

'Nothing', as in Death? We are not afraid. We know this is the only life we have - and there's nothing afterwards - thus we're enjoying it now. We win all arguments, regardless.

I mean, an 'Afterlife'?:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=94462&Page=1#1543298

Have you seen it? And 'belief'/'faith'/what a book of proven lies says (or a book of cheese dreams from a 'Mr. 23 Minutes') not allowed, neither. Remember 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV): 'Prove all things'. The Burden of Proof is always on you fundies whenever you make any & all 'claims' about your so-called 'beliefs' via the book of fairytales such are based on. And remember II: 'That which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'

No burden on us whatsoever. We don't have to lift a finger. We don't make such 'claims' in the first place.

Therefore 'God'/'Jesus'/'Satan', 'Heaven'/'Hell'? They don't exist. Prove we Atheists wrong, as your own Scripture forces you to. Otherwise by your not doing so, do you prove we Atheists right in everything we say - and have been saying all along - regardless.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@K-Bizz

Well, whenever a fundie doesn't - or daren't - answer a question to our satisfaction (which would result in them destroying their own 'beliefs' and becoming an Atheist), least of all abandon the debate/thread, and/or go off on an irrelevant tangent etc, then by admission/omission they lose the argument, therefore proving we Atheists right (as we always are. Not seeing fundies proving us wrong, and to our satisfaction). But then, they lost it before the whole debate started; in more ways than one.

And speaking of losing it, oh look, it's the butt-obsessed [/Freud] fundie troll who is reduced to extra-Biblical lies ('arseraped by demons for eternity in Hell'), and her own heresy-based mendacity (PROTIP: She's the one going to Hell, not we Atheists) exposed by her own kind, no less:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=92252&Page=2

Troll/Liar4Life: the fundie who - by her constant need to infect this place with her inferior presence - is clearly turned on at the thought of being argumentally/logically kerbstomped & humiliated by educationally superior Atheists, being the argumentally masochistic intellectual midget she is.

Only the intellectually inferior resort to 'threats' ('Turn or Burn' etc) when confronted by discussion/doctrine/'beliefs'-destroying facts.

She could always prove us wrong, for example, by not appearing in FSTDT again. Ever.

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=94537&Page=1#1545101

'Threats', when they know they're not getting their own way, or Reality doesn't bend to their will. Thus all fundies = douchebags. No Exceptions.. Which is why right-wing Fundamentalist Christains favour 'OSAS', 'Grace Through Faith' and all that cowcrap. Oh, you can be a douchebag cunt, and worse besides, but as long as you 'belieeeeeeeve...!' [/hyper-sarcasm]

I refer you to the last three sentences in my above linked post, K-Bizz.

old comment by His4Life

K-Bizz,

Let's not jump to conclusions. I was planning to respond to you but didn't have time this morning. In reality, you make a GREAT point in your post that I wanted to follow up on:

"Even if we say god merely allows my punishment in hell (all because I'm not convinced of his existence, mind you) he has the power to stop my eternal torment, suspend my sentence, allow me to make amends in the afterlife, or convince me here on earth of his existence."

This is actually very biblical You see, Scripture teaches that while there is no way you can 'make amends' to a holy and just God, he has in fact suspended your sentence. Why? Because his Son, Jesus Christ, suffered that sentence in your place, taking upon himself the punishment that was due to you and me for sin. If we accept Jesus' death on the cross, God credits his substitutionary sacrifice to us and counts our sins are having been dealt with. Does that make sense?

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@K-Bizz

I know why Troll4Life is soooooo obsessed with that aspect of Teh Ghey (her 'opposition' to such, thus her use of such as a supposed eternal 'punishment' by 'demons' in the so-called 'afterlife', as a 'Turn or Burn' technique; one of many so beloved of right-wing fundies):

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=67911&Page=3#1066248

"I was a fucking crackwhore* living on the street"

Troll4Life was taking it up the arse from so many johns who are into anal, it warped her - and not just psychologically (subconsciously, and religious mindset-wise) - thus not only does she have her metaphorical 'cross' to bear, there's the little matter of her rectum so baggy & prolapsed, she has to drag that along as well.

'Jumping to Conclusions', she says? As per here:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=92252&Page=2#1499998

She 'concludes' before there's anything to 'jump' in the first place; in this case, like I say, assuming that's what happens in the 'afterlife' to those not as 'OSAS'/'Grace Through Faith-saved' as she's deluded herself into 'believing' she is, when - as per those in that CARM Forums thread - there's not even the remotest metaphorical or 'interpretational' mention of demonic buttsex. And as professors of Theology will tell you, if it's not specifically mentioned in the Bible (PROTIP: Revelation 22:18-19 warns against thinking of doing the opposite: adding or taking away from the Bible), it never happened/has happened/will happen.

Thus Troll4Life here is the living embodiment of the adage, 'Assume': Where you make an ASS out of U, but not ME.

Like I say, K-Bizz, Troll/Liar4Life is an argumemtal masochist who loves being intellectually kerbstomped into oblivion (but being a 'Fucking Crackwhore'* previously, she's clearly a perv!) by those superior to her, otherwise why does she need to keep coming back to FSTDT if she's not?!

"Scripture teaches that while there is no way you can 'make amends' to a holy and just God"

Oh-ho-ho-ho, it is to laugh! [/mega-sarcasm] A 'holy and just God'?!:

Hosea 13:16: 'Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.'

Not taking into account how right-wing Protestant fundies (and isn't being anti-abortion supposed to be only Catholic doctrine, eh, anti-Papist Protestants...?!) are out-Catholicising the Catholics, re. birth control & abortion, what had those unborn Samarians done to warrant termination via abortion?

At least the Chaos God Khorne (in the scenario of the game "Warhammer 40,000") forbids the slaughter of the defenceless by his warlike believers.

"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child."

-Robert A. Heinlein

'Just'? Yeah, right. Just an infinitely bloodthirsty cunt of a so-called 'God of Love'.

Even Nelson Mandela [i]forgave[/i] his jailers, nay, those responsible for the regime that kept so many of his countrymen regarded as [b]second-class citizens.[/b] When he could have gone revenge-crazy and meted out more than righteous vengeance against Whites in South Africa once he gained political power. One word: Reconciliation.

Like I say, Nelson could've wreaked revenge but he didn't. The $64 trillion question: Why?

To err is human. To forgive, divine. Ergo, Nelson Mandela >>>>> God, in that case.

*- 'Fucking Crackwhore'; Department of Redundancy Department, or what?! [/hyper-sarcasm]

old comment by Anon-e-moose

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=85272&Page=5

"You whiny, sniveling, little, pusillanimous cowards. You have the audacity to tell us Christians that we are “weak” and that our religion is a “crutch.”

@His4Life

"Amen! You go girl. Put the atheists and Catholics back in their place."

...by out-Catholicising the Catholics, re. contraception and abortion. Oh, and...:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=94497&Page=3

...still not seeing you kill yourself - to prove your 'faith'; you lot always saying you are 'in this world but not of it' - to get to your precious 'Heaven' quicker, and remember: Suicide being a 'Sin' is purely Catholic doctrine, so reviled by you Protestant Christians, so go ahead: Put the Catholics back in their place. If you dare.

Every second you don't, you only serve to prove what I stated in the above linked thread: you are actually more scared of Death than we Atheists, despite your precious security blankie called 'Faith' in an 'Afterlife'; you - as with all other fundies - deluding youself you'll go to a so-called 'Heaven' when you cark it.

Too weak to so much as get out of the wheelchair that is your 'religion', eh? And you dared to think you had the right to even think of referring to Prof. Stephen Hawking as a 'Spinach Man', who was nothing more than an AI in his?!: http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=75940&Page=4

He was diagnosed with ALS decades ago, and told then that he didn't have long to live. The opening ceremony of the London Paralympics:

image

2012.

Prof. Stephen Hawking. Author, TV star ("Star Trek: The Next Generation", "The Big Bang Theory"), Theoretical Physicist supreme.

Compared to him, you are less than nothing.

Want to prove him - and me - wrong, re. your 'claims' about an 'Afterlife'? Then kill yourself. Now. After all, what are you afraid of...?!

You know what you'll have proved if you don't: that you are more of a 'Live for now!' Atheist than we in FSTDT are. I know why you are - or more appropriately not, i.e. topping yourself):

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=84511&Page=4#1344612

@Troll/Poe/Nuts4Life (emph-ass-is added):

"God will judge you for it. I would fear for my soul if I was you."

'Matthew 7:1, dearie. Oh, and not forgetting this little titbit of your own 'Word of God':

Revelation 21:8 (KJV; emphasis added): 'But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.'

Considering your previous track record, re. breaking the 9th Commandment, whilst still claiming to be 'Saved', I'd say that no amount of 'Grace by Faith Only' nor 'OSAS' is going to save you from the fate you condemned 'spinach man' Prof. Stephen Hawking to, claiming to speak for God himself, nay, judging on his behalf, when Matthew 7:1 and Revelation 21:8 says you don't even have the right to so much as think about doing so.

James 2:14-26 KJV, and all that jazz...!

So, speaking as someone who isn't going to 'take it up the butt for eternity', as you've unjustifiably claimed - many times - in the past, I'd say, re. your soul, dearie...:

Be afraid. Be very afraid. >:D '

I'm suuuuuure if Andy Schaftafly were here in FSTDT now, he'd say to you 'Put we Catholics in our place.' [/hyper-sarcasm], as he's a left-footer himself.

Waiting for that footage on YouTube to be uploaded, of you no longer being part of this world you lot 'claim' you don't like being in; if you're as 'Saved' as you 'claim' you are...!

Revelation 21:8. Don't forget that. Paradoxes. Can be such cruel bitches when they want to be, eh?! >:D

--EDIT--

@Kuno

"@His4Life

Does that make sense?

Funny, I wanted to ask you the same.

Your god punishes us for something he created."

'We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.'

-Gene Roddenberry

"How is that just?"

'Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.'

-Marcus Aurelius

"Then, even though he is omnipotent, the only way he can reduce that sentence is that he has to be incarnated as his own son and then has to be sacrificed to himself."

Oh, this supposedly 'omnipotent' God can just 'poof' a universe, world & all the animal life on it with nary a thought, yet he limited his omnipotence when it came to doing the same with the first humans. A 'God' who limits his omnipotence is no God at all.

'The heavenly lord and master
Saw man heading for a hellish disaster
Why'd he send his son in
To take away sin
When snapping his fingers'd be faster?'

But it seems he can limit his unlimited 'love', though. As opposed to, say, that shown by Nelson Mandela.

"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child."

-Robert A. Heinlein

At least Nelson Mandela exists. How much is he revered, and why eh, dearie...?! That is the question.

old comment by Kuno

@His4Life

Does that make sense?

Funny, I wanted to ask you the same.

Your god punishes us for something he created. How is that just?

Then, even though he is omnipotent, the only way he can reduce that sentence is that he has to be incarnated as his own son and then has to be sacrificed to himself.

As mythology it makes just as much sense as Loki being the mother of Odin’s eight-legged horse Sleipnir, despite being male (most of the time).

If you want to believe that, fine with me. Just don’t expect that others will believe it, too, or that we put that believe in law and government.

(Wow, the MS spellchecker recognizes Odin and Loki, but not Sleipnir? What.)

jshm22 #fundie answerbag.com

68 comments

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