Zachski #fundie

Zachski #fundie fstdt.com

I'm so glad you people are fighting for the freedom of speech of 12 dead racists who depict girls kidnapped into sexual slavery as welfare queens. I'm so glad you're making their efforts seem noble and heroic. Because you're revealing that you're pretty damn reactionary, falling into the same damn sort of trappings that Bill Donohue here falls into.

Someone said that Charlie Hebdo has harmed nobody. That is a falsehood. Charlie Hebdo has been encouraging and perpetuating bigotry and racism in France. Their propaganda (let's not honor it by calling it "satire") is no different from the same kind of bullshit produced by the KKK.

It is this same mindset that has led to freedom of expression being revoked in France when the right to wear whatever you want was revoked just to antagonize the Muslims.
It is this same mindset that has led to Muslims being assaulted, having their houses burned or grenaded, by the people of France.
It is this same mindset that has led to the persecution of Jews in France.

Oh. But 12 white racists were murdered. And that's WAY more important than the rights of marginalized brown people.

Note that if you're gonna tell me I'm wrong, make sure that it involves counter-arguments that actually prove me wrong. Trying to defend what is happening is actually proving me right.

And believe me. Bill Donohue can go fuck himself. So can most of you, likewise.

37 comments

old comment by Insult to Rocks

@Reynardine
It doesn't matter what they say, it matters what they do. It's as simple as that. If you persecute someone based soley on words and motives, you've essentially entered into a Stalinist system. And if you try to make the claim that their actions perpetuate bigotry, tell me, when does that line of thinking stop? Should we gun down black men and women who live in stereotypical ways? Should we murder Muslim women who wear Hijabs because they perpetuate sexism? Do we execute gay men who are more feminine, because they unwillingly perpetuate homophobic stereotypes? Is our duty to societal well being more important than our own expression?

old comment by Passerby

There's a distinct difference between mocking/shaming someone's entire belief system and making a parody of a single aspect that seems ridiculous by your personal standards but is itself taken to an extreme.

Suicide bombers were at the time being promised by extremist clerics an incredibly crude reward in the afterlife for sacrificing their lives and better natures to commit terrible acts, incidentally betraying a conveniently overlooked bit of scripture in the process. As much as it might insult those who believe in greater rewards for living a good life it was meant to provoke the question of what you're really willing to die for... and make others die for.

There are people who use faith as a carrot... there are people who use faith as a stick... there are people who just plain use faith. None of us should be afraid of drawing attention to them, particularly not when they influence the lives of others in terrible ways.

If I may pontificate for a moment, every time I hear of some depraved monster who uses faith as an excuse for things a good man could barely concieve of let alone actually enact I think of people like my co-worker who thinks it his religious duty to reach out to me if I seem troubled even if I reject his God. I think about aid workers who think nothing of dying when they rush towards an epidemic with medicine in hand and prayers in heart. I think of Badass Of The Week: Desmond Doss whose faith decreed he should not even touch an instrument of death, though it also demanded he act in service of his countrymen prompting his enlistment in the army as a medic in a time and a combat zone where medics were specifically targetted by the enemy.

I think how easily such incredibly good people could be swayed by an argument of faith, and I find it more harmful and insulting to their very character to stay my tongue than voice my concern in a way that could possibly offend them.

Which I will do for you now, Zachskie.

There are subtle, unintentional forms of bigotry that go unremarked but the amount of damage they cause can startle a man. I know this and I am angered by this. The line between jokes, commentary, and insult are ephemeral as even a few minutes in this company will demonstrate.

But always, the intent is of import, as is the ability to laugh at oneself if they can see the point.

The point of the Hebdo caption, I should hope, was to demonstrate the illogical self-serving nature of a single extreme.

You may mean well, but you run the risk of making a parody of your own cause.

old comment by Zachski

Funny, you can't even criticize dead people without automatically being treated as supporting their deaths.

Charlie Hebdo was indeed racist. They frequently used blackface and racially stereotypical images in their comics. I've seen them for myself, so I'm actually probably more educated on this matter than some of you.

Now, before I say anymore, I want to ask something

At what point did I say the murderers did anything right?
At what point did I advocate killing people for saying something?
Because last I checked... this *is* me "saying something of my own back".

But hey, you're free to criticize and read into my post whatever you want. It's just hilarious how many of you are jumping the gun and seeing things that aren't actually there.

@Kanna

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism. I would not call the KKK heroes of free speech if their cartoonists were murdered, so I would not do the same for Charlie Hebdo. What I criticized was the hero worship.

@Reynardine

What you said.

@Nemo
Honestly, considering how many white atheistic Frenchmen were firebombing Jewish and Muslim houses at the time, you tell me.

@Insult to Rocks

Wait, is criticism freedom of speech, or is criticism persecution? Because judging by your post, it's persecution when *I* do it.

@Darkevilme

Nope, I just don't think that the reputation of dead racists is more important than the lives of real human beings. The lives of living racists are definitely as important as any other life, if only because a living racist can cease to be a racist.

@Echo

Seems to me you're unaware of how racially charged islamophobia is, and how far the extent of Charlie Hebdo's racism went. Hint: it wasn't just Muslims they were "satirizing", it was also Jews, Africans, and pretty much anyone who wasn't white.

@Nemo
Hacks punch down, comedians punch up. Seems logical to me.

I understand your post.

Now, forgive me for pointing out that what I was doing was criticizing people who had jumped on a bandwagon, praising a bunch of people for being "heroes of free speech"... when they were pretty much not really anything of the sort. They were racists that were being celebrated by a country that has no small reputation for xenophobia.

And that people were ignoring the fact that in response to the shootings, Frenchmen were going around torching Muslim and Jewish houses and assaulting them. And yes, Jews were as much a victim of this.

Charlie Hebdo's racism extends beyond these two groups.

So, anyways, Reynardine is right and you should listen to them.

And remember

Criticizing dead racists is not the same thing as defending their killers.
Defending the victims of people rallying around dead racists is not the same thing as defending their killers.
Criticizing dead racists is not advocating killing people for saying something, it is in fact "saying something of your own back".

Now, that's settled.

old comment by Zachski

And since someone will inevitably wonder why I'm calling Charlie Hebdo racist and will demand proof (which is fair), I'll provide the proof.

http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com/img/taubira-en-singe-charlie-hebdo.jpg
http://www.le-livre.fr/photos/RO8/RO80090971.jpg
http://fireprooflibrary.org/FireX/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/charlie-hebdo-boko-haram.jpg (These women are referring to the girls who were kidnapped by Boko Haram and sold into martial slavery. And yes, LITTLE GIRLS are supposed to be represented by those racist stereotypes.)
https://news-images.vice.com/images/2015/09/16/a-charlie-hebdo-drowned-migrant-cartoon-is-pissing-people-off-and-thats-the-point-body-image-1442362656.png?output-quality=75
(And now they're mocking the drowning victim here)

So, no, Charlie Hebdo deserve all the criticism they get, whether it was the works of the dead racists or the living racists.

After all... isn't that, in and of itself, an expression of free speech?

old comment by Transpig From Pluto

@Zachski

"Charlie Hebdo was indeed racist. They frequently used blackface"

They use white faces too but I guess that's not racist.

Moron. One way or another that character is going to have a face. You prefer faceless caricatures? How would that work?

"racially stereotypical images in their comics"

There's a difference between making fun of someone for being black and portraying a black person in a caricature.

What are blacks now immune from being drawn into caricatures?

Fuck off you racist. You don't want equality for the races, you just want non-whites to be treated better than whites.

"At what point did I say the murderers did anything right?"

You're trivializing the murders, that's the problem.

"At what point did I advocate killing people for saying something?"

Let's follow your own standards:

"It is this same mindset that has led to Muslims being assaulted"

It can be easily said that your mindset is perpetuating a hostile environment for the cartoonists.

Oh and as for non-Muslim Frechmen physically attacking Muslims in France, where's your evidence that this is due to the Charlie cartoons?

Let's not forget the fact that it's Muslims committing far more violence against non-Muslims than the other way around. Muslims in France are outnumbered 10:1 at least, yet the 2 most violent terrorist attacks have been done by Muslims following the Quran's jihad verses. Why aren't you protesting about that and don't tell me you don't know, honestly just google "quran unbelievers" or "quran violence" or something like that, you have no excuse.

old comment by Transpig From Pluto

Ah, you did link some images:

1. "rassemblement blue raciste" translates to "blue racist rally"

Would help if you could explain what the context is. You are the person making the accusation.

2. so a white woman and a black man having sex while phoning the prefect?

If that offends you maybe you're the racist

Also WTF does that have to do with Islam? There is no indication whatsoever that's a Muslim black guy.

3. might be tasteless, but tasteless isn't the same as racist

4. I'm too tired to go through google translate again, you're already cried wolf 3 times

And the fact that you see these cartoons as some kind of violations of human rights worse than 12 murders speaks volumes about your character.

Never mind that black is race, Islam is a religion. I don't appreciate people conflating the two for political propaganda purposes.

If you hate the west so much, go to Antarctica and form your own culture. Maybe you can be the penguin king or some shit.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

Wow, Transpigeon the Nazi is so sad & pathetic, he's returned.

You've been quoted in FSTDT:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=119418

You haven't learned, then.

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=117908&Page=2#1930402

@#1930402

@Nameless Coward (a.k.a. TransPigeon Who's Flapping Around Impotently)

I have to realize that such bad politics affect me as well, not just the idiotic leftists who welcome this 5th column with open arms.

"But you're confident Drumpf will win, right? So why are you worried about what "idiotic" leftists do? If he wins, our opinion won't matter anymore!

Unless... You're afraid Trump won't win, so you decide to take care of your insecurity by going to websites full of leftists and ruthlessly attacking them! Yes! It all makes sense now!"

Insecure much, that you need to justify your sad pathetic non-life by your obsessional need to impotently 'Tilt at Windmills' here; knocking over the pieces, crapping on the board and flapping around, thinking it'll somehow bend reality to your will? Shoo, pigeon.

old comment by Transpig From Pluto

@Zachski

"Oh. But 12 white racists were murdered. And that's WAY more important than the rights of marginalized brown people."

Quote from you. You're implying that cartoons are:

1. violating someone's rights
2. worse than murder

As for the blackface, the very article you linked for Wiki actually mentioned a real black performer STILL using the blackface, never mind that France isn't America and the cultural context is different.

And once again, WTF does race have to do with Islam?

Also please tell me how WOULD you depict a black guy in that cartoon style? Notice the choice of colors, mostly white and black or very light shades of different colors (the blonde is practically white haired). You wouldn't even see the features if the guy was fully drawn black.

"Drawing black people as monkeys is a common racist "satire"."

You still haven't explained the context.

Also George Bush has often been compared to a chimp. Omg anti-white racism!!

old comment by Transpig From Pluto

"Theoretically, nothing... except for the fact that islamophobes seem more focused on race than religion."

Evidence?

"It's why they attack Sikhs and Christians because they "look" Muslim."

Okay so they're idiots (not to mention rare), that doesn't make Islam a religion of peace though or invalidate the criticism of everyone else and their concerns about Sharia law and terrorism. If you wanted more coherent criticism of Islam, there are plenty of sources for that, like Robert Spencer's Jihadwatch. The guy is well educated on Islam and certainly won't go around physically attacking people, Muslim or non-Muslim. His criticism is strictly on doctrine and he backs his claims with Quran and hadith. No race involved.

"In other words, most of islamophobia is poorly disguised racism against Arabs."

Blacks or Arabs? LOL! You can't even make up your mind you poor confused drug addicted leftist. Get off that shit and maybe then you can think more clearly if you haven't burned your brain cells.

Also, you do realize that there are plenty of Arabs and blacks who don't like Islam precisely because it oppresses the rights of everyone on the planet?

Plenty of atheist Arabs left Islam and now they have to listen to your shitty apologetics about how they're actually racist against their own race just because they don't wanna be flogged for drinking or fornicating? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

old comment by Zachski

Islam has 1.6 billion adherents.

ISIS has about 25,000 members, which is actually a decline from what it was before, apparently.

Boko Haram has about 9,000 members. Let's round that up to 10,000 for an inaccurately high numbers

Al Qaeda has... well... can't find a good estimate so let's throw out at high number and say about 20,000.

Terrorists account for about 0.00348% Muslims in the world.

On the other hand, a belief in white supremacy and the inferiority of other races is a required attribute in order to be a KKK member.

So, yeah, I'd say that islamophobia, the "irrational fear and hatred of Muslims" is a thing, whereas fear and hatred of the KKK is less likely to be irrational.