True_Blue's definition of a species for sexually reproducing organisms is a population of organisms that an interbreed successfully if the egg and sperm can combine in a petri dish to produce a healthy offspring. Thus, a poodle and a Great Dane are of the same species. Giraffes, zebras, and horses are of the same species. In fact, I would be entirely unsurprised if owls shared the same species as birds like pidgeons. By that definition, monkeys and people would be of different species.
46 comments
Possibly one of the most biologically ignorant things ever released onto the web, congratulations.
Your totally confused between 'breeds' and 'species'. The great Dane and a poodle are different breeds of the same species, they can reproduce, although I'm not sure which one would be the receiver.
Monkeys and Humans are indeed different species, didn't know anyone out there was trying to argue differently, so they cannot interbreed. However, they share a common ancestor, at some point there was no humans and no monkeys, only a species sharing similar traits with both, that over time, EVOLVED into two separate species.
God invented google, google can answer questions, use the fucking thing.
I have to disappoint you, True_Blue,
They are definitely too different to get offspring together ;)
You also won´t see owls (Ordo: Strigiformes) producing offspring with pigeons (Ordo: Columbiformes)
The animal kingdom is more differentiated into species (who cannot interbreed) than a christian fundamentalist (with his system of "kinds") might imagine ;)
What's sad is when fundies think that evolution is something that really IS absurd and stupid, then reject it like any sensible well-informed person would, along with evolution itself. It's like people thinking that the fetal resemblance between species is interpreted by evolutionists as "the fetus re-enacting each phase of it's evolution", then "disproving" it and thinking they've discovered something. Sad, sad shit indeed.
Zebra hybrids are almost always sterile, hence wouldn't qualify as 'healthy offspring'. Giraffes and horses have different chromosome numbers and cannot interbreed.
Poodles and Great Danes are the same species (at the moment), but owls have between 2 and 4 more chromosomes than pigeons, so almost certainly are not (by TB's criteria).
The term "monkeys" covers a number of species of which humans are not one. This does not disprove their sharing a common ancestor.
A number of ring species (for example Ensatina salamanders) have the property that group A can be successfully interbred with B, and group B with C. By TB's definition this makes groups A, B and C all the same species. Group C, however, doesn't produce viable offspring with group A, hence is essentially a different species by that same definition.
So A is the same species as B, and B is the same species as C, but C and A are different species? TB's definition of 'species' is looking decidedly shaky!
Unless we accept that one species can (over time) become two, of course, then the above result makes perfect sense.
Interesting definition of species, in that your definition of "interbreed" just relies upon compatible sperm and ova, completely ignoring whether they are mechanically able to have sex in nature, and thus interbreed beyond human intervention. Being able to interbreed autonomously is pretty important to being an individual species, and is the impetus for evolutionary change.
"I would be entirely unsurprised if owls shared the same species as birds like pidgeons."
OK, lets cross a hummingbird with a California Condor and see the results.
Healthy viable offspring. Horses and Donkeys are not the same thing... See Jesus on stallion pictures... Its freaking awesome, his horse is like white and rearing up and there is lightning. It looks like an iron maiden cover. A donkey would be less impressive.
Giraffes do not produce viable offspring with zebras... OR HORSES.
Giraffes do NOT produce fertile offspring with horses or zebras!
"Thus, a poodle and a Great Dane are of the same species."
Yes. in fact I think i saw this once. (poodles come in two sizes, you see. One as large as great danes)
Uhh no they are not. There is no offspring of a girraffe and ahorse that i have found. And while there are Zebrea/Horse hybrids they are mules, as in infertle.
I would. Except for being both birds, they are not related.
Giraffes, zebras, and horses are of the same species.
Whether they can interbreed in a Petri dish is irrelevant. If they don't breed in nature, they're separate species. They'll continue to drift apart genetically because they never breed with each other. A lot of evolution starts out with animals that could interbreed but don't - either because they don't like each other (David B.'s Ensatina example) or because they're separated by some physical barrier like a mountain range. Gradually, they drift further apart so that eventually interbreeding becomes impossible even with human intervention.
That's what we think happened with humans and chimps. A population of ancestors got separated, and eventually two of the ancestors' chromosomes got fused together in the human line (but not the chimp line). Incidentally, as far as I know, we don't know if humans and chimps could be interbred in a Petri dish, though we think it's unlikely. I doubt if anyone has attempted this morally repugnant experiment (and admitted it).
ROFLMAO! This idiot probably *vaguely* thinks the sole limiting factor between species mating is "if you can get them to mate". If you could get an ant to fuck an elephant, they could have kids, it's just you CAN'T. Fundie science reaches new peak.
Ahhh taxonomy...
Well, I can almost see where horses and zebras might just be equal in the fundie mindlessness. They are after all of the same genus.
What I'm curious about is whether he means the mountain zebra (Equus zebra), the plains zebra (Equus quagga) or the Grevy's zebra (Equus grevyi).
Giraffes, on the other hand, aren't even in the same order as horses and zebras. Just count the toes, horses and zebras have one "toenail" (or hoof) per foot, giraffes have two.
ooOOOooo. thats a pretty dangerous can of worms you are opening, dr. frankenstein. geneticists are pretty damn good at what they do. there are alot of animals that cant naturally breed that you can easily cross breed in a "petri dish". you may want to consult the good book on playing at god before you make suggestions like that. of course we atheists dont believe in god, therefore we are only playing WITH natural laws. way better.
Poodles and great danes are indeed the same species, an underspecies of the wolf.
Right. And can those offspring have fertile offspring of their own, or are they sterile?
You know, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that they're going to be mostly sterile. This is because closely related species can sometimes produce offspring, but most often they're completely sterile.
Meanwhile, more distantly related species of animal rarely, if ever, produce offspring, and in the very, very rare times when they do, those offspring are very rarely healthy, and virtually never fertile. And extremely distantly related animals can't produce offspring, period. Plant genetics is much more complicated, but generally speaking, very distantly related species don't hybridize readily without a great deal of help in a laboratory, either.
Your definition of "species" is mostly wrong. Bronze-age sheepherders understood animal husbandry and selective breeding better than you do.
Your definition is fairly close to the real one, if you compare with the usual definition of "kind" that many fundies spout. It's way to wrong to use practically though, just let real scientists deal with this, there's a good lad.
Yes, monkeys and people are different species. We still belong to the same Order (Primates), which means we are all related to each other and share a common ancestor.
A poodle and a wolf are also of the same species.
Giraffes, zebras, and horses are NOT of the same species. Zebras and horses are of the same Order, Giraffes are of a different Order. Okapis are a separate species, not a hybrid.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
