Dave #racist

Dave #racist moonbattery.com

White people must overcome the pavlovian reaction of thinking that anything that defends white peoples interests are ipso factor anti-black or anti-Semitic.

Do not white people have a right to defend themselves as a racial group? If not, why not?

Remember: Whites make-up only 10% of the world’s population and that number is shrinking. Moreover, its homelands are being colonized by non-whites at an alarming rate. This is not happening in Black homelands or Asian homelands — ONLY WHITE HOMELANDS!!!

Interesting factoid: >50% of babies born in London today are non-White. Ditto for Liverpool and other large British cities. The same demographic change is occurring all across Western European countries.

What we are witnessing is a stealth White genocide in progress.Something of a nature the world has never experienced before; and it’s happening real time right before our faces. But alas, most whites are too afraid to look at it much less confront it.

54 comments

old comment by Rabbit of Caerbannog

Ahem. My response was targeted, not at all white folks, but rather people (like the original poster) who try to equate their petty problems (e.g. anger at miscegenation, non-white immigration, etc.) with the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany or black folks under the Jim Crow or Apartheid systems. Am I, as a white man, oppressed in any way? The answer is a resounding no. White people are not chattel slaves. White people are not the victims of genocide. No, black people and white people procreating does not count as genocide. Neither does an influx of non-white immigrants. Get a grip.

But you know what, Anon? I have this just for you:
image

old comment by Rabbit of Caerbannog

I disagree with the important question being whether or not I, as a white man, am oppressing anyone. The right question would be whether I, as a white man, have special privileges afforded to me simply for being white. The answer to that is yes.

In Black Reconstruction in America W. E. B. DuBois wrote:

"It must be remembered that the white group of laborers, while they received a low wage, were compensated in part by a sort of public and psychological wage. They were given public deference and titles of courtesy because they were white. They were admitted freely with all classes of white people to public functions, public parks, and the best schools. The police were drawn from their ranks, and the courts, dependent on their votes, treated them with such leniency as to encourage lawlessness. Their vote selected public officials, and while this had small effect upon the economic situation, it had great effect upon their personal treatment and the deference shown them. White schoolhouses were the best in the community, and conspicuously placed, and they cost anywhere from twice to ten times as much per capita as the colored schools. The newspapers specialized on news that flattered the poor whites and almost utterly ignored the Negro except in crime and ridicule."

That psychological wage is ongoing. I needn't worry about people assuming I'm a criminal or that I might not be qualified for the job I was hired for. I don't have a higher chance than black people of being pulled over or searched for drugs. When a white mass murderer or terrorist commits a criminal act I needn't worry about anyone suggesting I be profiled. And it goes on from there, with disparities in our prison and health systems, for example.

old comment by Vox

@#1498209 - I'm a black man and while I don't have white privilege (due to not being white) I DO still have male privilege. America is also still a sexist society as well as a racist society. I don't hate myself for having male privilege, but I won't run from the fact that I do either. Instead of denying it or accusing others of trying to make me feel guilty about it what I do is strive to FIX the problem by advocating gender equality. Has nothing to do with notions of "Original Sin", it has to do with the simple fact that when a system is set up in your favor for several hundreds of years the problems it causes don't just disappear overnight with the pass of a few legislations. Just like if you bully a kid and hold him down and break his leg just saying "I'm sorry" later doesn't make all the problems go away. Similarly, creating a system where white people can become wealthier than nonwhites or have more opportunities just by being white doesn't change the inequality that built up over the centuries just by making a law that stops it on the books. The problem is there are still people who are racist and will try to maintain that same system in a de facto manner. A change of laws doesn't change hearts.

The same is true in every country with a historically oppressed minority. A change in laws didn't make all the problems go away or make everything okay. That's just the start of the solution, not the end of it.

@Rabbit of Caerbannog - When I see some white people start suggesting that even simply mentioning the existence of white privilege means you are suggesting that white people should "hate themselves" or "feel white guilt", I think it's those people's way of trying to alleviate their own feelings of guilt. The fact they feel people are trying to make them feel "guilty" when no one even mentioned that word, let alone suggested it, shows me that they DO feel some level of guilt or blame but are trying to run from it by lashing out at the person or facts that make them feel that way instead of trying to do something about the facts. I think it's another example of the "DARVO" response. When a person knows they've done something wrong or are benefiting from something wrong instead of trying to help fix the problem they attack the other person for pointing out a fact that makes them feel bad.

old comment by Hasan Prishtina

Actualy... both are perfectly good examples of brown people being colonized by white invaders. Habrun is surrounded by "settlements", to the point where the native Palestinians have to beg permission from the white settlers, to go buy water at white controled wells.

Beyond the city, Hebron is "surrounded" by about 1,000 Jews, in comparison to the city being encompassed by the tiny number of 90,000 Palestinians. And that's not including the city itself, where, as I said, less than 1% of the population are Jewish.

Let's just analyze this is the context of the opinions of D Laurier.

Let's note, for a start, the use of the words "white settlers" and "white controlled [sic] wells." As with most fundies, racial and otherwise, mere facts, such as that nearly a half of the population of Israel come from Arab lands and Persia and are every bit as brown as their Arab neighbors, are neither here nor there. The fact that Jews have lived, apart from the period from when they were violently forced out in 1929 to 1967, continuously in Hebron since Biblical times and, yes, Palestinian Jews are brown, is also of no consequence.

old comment by Hasan Prishtina

But let's examine this further:

It's strange that Jews in Israel are assumed to be all white when this is what we've been told:

I find that when people talk about a "jewish ethnicity", they are usualy refering to white jews of european descent, as though no other jews exist.
Are you one of those who deny the jewishness of Arab jews?
Do you reject the jewishness of Etheopian jews?

D Laurier, Quote #92054, 1/14/2013 3:04:41 PM

It's strange that non-white Jews only exist when it's convenient and magically disappear again when it's time to talk about Israel, as here.

But there again...

Your so-called "atheist jews" are either atheist OR jews.
One can no more be an atheist jew than an atheist christian or an atheist muslim.

D Laurier, same quote

A qualification stricter than even the most ultra-Orthodox of Jews, beyond even the greatest idiocies of Lenin and Stalin.

I can see why you find trying to magic away the existence of the Jewish people (starting with the non-religious and the non-whites) attractive, but it isn't going to work.

old comment by Vox

@#1498271 - If by "excised" you mean avoided I haven't met a guy who completely excised themselves from male privilege or a Christian in the US who completely excised themselves from Christian privilege. That's because some of the privilege is so subtle or engrained we don't even realize it - sometimes it's like getting a fish to realize it's in water. Even if someone could realize it every time they can't always step out of it because a lot of it has to do with differences in how others treat you compared to how they'd treat you if you were someone else.

The point is not to "excise" oneself from the privilege, the point is to acknowledge it and work to try to end it as much as it can be ended.

old comment by UHM

"White people must overcome the pavlovian reaction of thinking that anything that defends white peoples interests are ipso factor anti-black or anti-Semitic."
As must white people overcome the idea that every pro-black, pro-latino, pro-desi or pro-asian event is anti-white.

"Do not white people have a right to defend themselves as a racial group? If not, why not?"
No they don't. Blacks, Asians, Desi, Arabs and Latinos don't have either. What you do have is the right to defend yourself and other people you feel are in danger independent of the color of their skin color or their gender.

"Remember: Whites make-up only 10% of the world’s population and that number is shrinking."
Europe has more than that, check your math, Dave.

"Moreover, its homelands are being colonized by non-whites at an alarming rate."
"colonization" is not what you think asshole. "Immigrated into" would be the word for it. The only way any rate of that can be alarming is if you don't like those people's skin color, which would render your opinion void from the get-go.

"This is not happening in Black homelands or Asian homelands ONLY WHITE HOMELANDS!!!"
Bullshit² and we know it.

"Interesting factoid: >50% of babies born in London today are non-White. Ditto for Liverpool and other large British cities."
And as we all know the political ideology we later vote for and with is dependent on the color of our skin. London has a lot of immigrants, much more than other parts of Britain.

"The same demographic change is occurring all across Western European countries."
Don't forget the other four regions of Europe. And once again: So fucking what?

"What we are witnessing is a stealth White genocide in progress."
Not genocide, more evolution.

"Something of a nature the world has never experienced before; and it’s happening real time right before our faces."
The native indian tribes of the Americas would like to kick you in the nuts.

"But alas, most whites are too afraid to look at it much less confront it."
No, most whites looked at it and didn't give a fuck.

old comment by Anon

It's the usual "white people are inherently evil because of some stuff that happened in the past" rubbish again here, I see.
What exactly are white people supposed to do about this "white privilege" at this point? We've passed laws to outlaw discrimination on racial grounds, and racism is generally socially unacceptable.
Nothing more can be done at this point, we must simply allow society to change over time, but I really find it ridiculous that we are supposed to be guilty for being white, and must always remember that by our very existence we are oppressing someone.
Frankly, it is self-flaggelation, and were I of another race I think I'd find it fairly insulting.

old comment by Vox

@#1498394 - "Either we "check our privilege," which essentially ends up meaning believing everything a woman or minority says on social justice issues, since everything is justified under "lived experience"

Complete and utter horseshit strawman. Acknowledging privilege has nothing to do with claiming every member of the unprivileged group is correct about anything they ever say. That's the same argument corporatists and Republicans make when they argue that acknowledging class difference is "class warfare". That to acknowledge that society is not a meritocratic utopia is to say that the unprivileged group is entitled to everything - that's the same bullshit argument they make. It's also inadvertently admitting you do have privilege since privileged individuals usually fear losing it, at least to some degree. Can't fear to lose what you don't have.

No, what you do is work to fix the problem and try to make it so that equal opportunity and meritocracy is a reality rather than hypocritical self-indulgence and pretty words. The same way Republicans who insist that "America is #1 no matter what" should strive to make it a reality rather than a head-in-the-sand denial mantra. That's a better solution than denying the problem exists and lashing out at anyone who points it out. That never solves anything.

@Anon - Ditto to you. My same words to you.

old comment by Vox

@#1498826 - "If you keep telling white men that they're inherently racist/sexist and there's no way to be free of it"

White Privilege has little to do with personal racism. A white person does not have to be a racist to be privileged just like a rich person doesn't have to be a classist or a snob to be privileged over non-rich people. Nor does being privileged mean you a personally evil (unlike your ridiculous Jedi/Sith dichotomy comparison). It's a very simple concept. "Privilege" is not a feeling (though it can be), it's an inequality in opportunity or access or expectations.

I'm starting to wonder if you have horrible reading comprehension or if you're being intentionally intellectually dishonest and creating straw man arguments. I suspect the latter since this is an easy enough concept even an elementary schooler should be able to understand it easy enough.

If you honestly are this confused you should look up with the word "privilege" means in a dictionary. If you do understand what it means then basically you're trying to tell me that institutionalized racism no longer exists and everyone in America has 100% equal opportunity. Something no one who has ever walked outside of their home could say with a straight face.

old comment by Vox

@#1498831 - "Anger is punishment"

Anger is an emotion or a reaction. If a parent punishes their children out of anger they're being abusive. Punishing children should be about reinforcing and teaching consequences for negative or irresponsible actions, not about anger. REVENGE is a punishment, not anger. Anger can be appropriate or well-deserved and can be used to do good things (Ex: MLK was angry at the system he lived in)

If you're angry about public schools giving some teachers very high salaries for poor output does that mean you view all teachers or all public school teachers as personally evil? If you're angry about US Presidents being allowed to do things like they can under the Patriot Act does that mean you view the office of Presidency as personally evil or inherently evil? If you're angry about outsourcing does that mean you view every American businessman or business owner as personally and inherently evil? Anger at an unfair system has nothing to do with viewing every last beneficiary as personally evil.

Now you're being patently ridiculous, and your glib, unthoughtful answer leads me to believe now you're being intentionally evasive and obtuse. This is quite a simple concept.

"Nobody is entitled to their feelings"

Again, this is about a system. Not feelings. If I, a black man, walk around in a fancy neighborhood I'm much more likely to have the cops called on me than you would. That's a Fact, not a Feeling. That's an example of "White Privilege".

old comment by Vox

@#1498838 - Paternal privilege is fine, so long as it isn't abusive and doesn't extend to parents being above criticism or reproach. Parents are in a position to raise and care for their children and teach them how to be upstanding, productive citizens. Something people aren't born into this world already knowing how to be. Racial, gender and religious privileges are almost entirely or entirely unearned.

Ex: There's no reason why a black man who speaks "Ebonics" (AAVE) should be judged more harshly than a white man who speaks a backwoods American South dialect, or a heavy Boston dialect. Yet many times the black man would be judged more harshly.

"Is the social justice movement actually wrong about anything meaningful? Is there anything that needs reform within it?"

That's a broad question. It's like asking is there anything wrong with Jazz music. Of course there are problematic or sub-par subsets of any movement or ideology.

Dave #racist moonbattery.com

54 comments

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