Spud #fundie

Spud #fundie religionethics.co.uk

(Reacting to criticism of his god not saving a child from death)

It seems that the parents must have somehow been taught an immense heresy, ie that you can pray for someone to be healed without actually doing anything, expecting God to perform a miracle. So whoever has misled them in that way will hopefully be prevented from doing so again.

I made the comment this morning in the light of Romans 8:28, "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

29 comments

old comment by Potato-tan

A few years ago, one of my cats wasn't doing well. I had just started college, and I didn't have money to take it to the vet. Desperate, I asked a deeply religious friend of mine to pray for the cat.

Of course, I don't believe in the power of prayer, but my friend does. I felt powerless to help the animal, and if my friend -- who sincerely believed in God -- prayed for help, then in a way it felt like SOMETHING was being done. It would have brought me a little comfort, even if it wouldn't help the cat.

After some thought, my friend told me that she couldn't pray for my cat. If she prayed for my cat and God healed it, and I failed to acknowledge the gracious gift, then God might become fed up with me, was her logic. She was concerned that If God did something for me, and I didn't acknowledge him for it, he'd turn me away, and I'd never get saved. In her mind, it was better to not ask God to help my cat; that way, I wouldn't have the opportunity to snub him with my ongoing agnosticism.

People like my friend, and Spud here, they don't worship very altruistic gods, do they? God's attitude always seems to be, "Fuck you, got mine."

The cat's still alive and kicking, by the way. A former stray, she's a crotchety old bitch with FIV, and all the health problems that go along with it.

old comment by Tempus

@Potato-tan: your friend would fit in well with any of my teabagging family's gatherings.

For that matter, she would fit in well with the people I work with. Like the lady who told me she didn't watch Harry Potter movies and wouldn't allow them in her house, because magic.

When I told her the magic was completely unreal and the movies themselves were entirely fictional, she went off instead on this "I know they're fictional, but Jesus can protect us from anything" tangent. I agreed, since it doesn't require any effort to protect someone from something that flat-out does not exist. A little further questioning revealed that she honestly didn't seem to entirely grasp what the concept of "fiction" was, as we generally don't require protection from things that are completely fictional, and when she became irritated with me over this line of inquiry and asserted that this was her opinion and it was just as good as mine or anyone else's, I understand that she didn't understand the difference between "opinion" and "fact," either.

This is a woman in her late 40s who votes.

old comment by John

It seems that the parents must have somehow been taught ... that you can pray for someone to be healed without actually doing anything

Well, yeah ... I mean what's the point of religion if not to attempt to influence God's actions by human behavior? If we can't, and God just does whatever the heck He wants without any input from us, we might as well ignore God and get on with our Sunday mornings.

Actually, God does sometimes answer prayers. For example, if you pray for a seven while shooting craps, God will sometimes give you one. But since gambling is sinful, He’ll only do it about one time out of six. Roulette is apparently even more sinful - He'll only give you your number about one time out of 37 spins (or once out of 38 at the apparently even more sinful double-zero wheel).

old comment by Potato-tan

@ Tempus

I went to a T-ball game friday, with the same friend. Her middle grandson was playing. The youngest had a stick, and as we sat in the bleachers, she was pretending it was a magic wand. She told her grandmother, "I'm pretending I'm a witch, I'm a good witch!" And my friend told her there were no good witches.

She used to let the eldest grandchild read things like Percy Jackson -- better the kid read anything, than not read at all -- but with the stipulation that they would also discuss, after every reading session, why the stories were unbiblical.

She's a lovely woman. Like my own mom, really. She's done a lot for me, including basically taking me in as her own when I was disowned and orphaned. I love her immensely, but I tend to avoid any topic that might lead to a religious discussion. I hesitate to talk about school or my academic interests (among other things, avian evolution). It's sad. I've known her 14 years, and I'll never feel comfortable being completely open with her.

old comment by checkmate

an immense heresy, ie that you can pray for someone to be healed without actually doing anything, expecting God to perform a miracle.

Right. So if your appendix ruptures, you shouldn't just pray, you should pray but also go to the hospital and have an operation. Hmm, that sounds good.

But, when the operation is successful, it was God and the prayer that saved the patient, not the doctor, right? Going to the hospital showed God that you were willing to do something, so he decided to get his eternal all-knowing ass in gear and save the patient, right?

Hmm, strange, because for millenia people have been praying and doing things, but the patients all died nevertheless. So maybe, just maybe it's modern medicine which is saving the patients and not God and prayer. No?

And if nobody prays and the operation is still successful? Oh yeah, I forgot: the Lord acts in strange ways. The cheap catch-all.

Spud #fundie religionethics.co.uk

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