"If Adam and Eve were the first humans, are we all inbred?"
If their genes were perfect then that isn't a problem. Note that according to Genesis Eve was effectively Adam's semi-identical twin sister: she was his flesh in the most complete sense (to be "one flesh" is part of the Christian notion of marriage).
Indeed the prohibition against brothers and sisters marrying is practical rather than intrinisic: genes are no longer perfect and so close relatives can't get away with it. There would have been no problem with Adam and Eve's kids marrying each other.
Catholics, for example, can marry their first cousins with the permission of their bishop (who examines their family tree).
39 comments
"close relatives can't get away with it"
So if you thought you could get away with it, you'd happily shag your sister?
Eeeewww!
If their genes were perfect then that isn't a problem.
Adam and Eve started having children after the Fall. Jehovah caused everything to become imperfect to match the spiritual state of Adam and Eve. Therefore, their genes were not perfect.
If you want to argue that their genes were still perfect, then you must admit that any children they had, had imperfect genes.
Nice try, Greg. You're still a douche, though.
"Perfect genes'?! Perfection is a human perception and entirely relative.
If adam really exsisted he probably would have torn out all his ribs in trying to create a plethora of wives to satisfy him.
"If Adam and Eve were the first humans..."
Just stop right there. This is a stupid question. Any modifiers or answers are going to be equal to, or greater than, the stupid of the premise. You might as well be asking about magic beans, beanstalks, and giants.
I feel an urge to shout "genetics does not work that way!"
I'd like to start ranting about how Eve being a female "clone" of Adam would make inbreeding even more dangerous (I assume she would have Adam's X cromosome copied to produce her DNA), but its not like it would help.
Also, later Greg explains about a "scientific research" that proves that the chances of god existing are 50/50...
Ahh yes...the standard "explain everything with 'sin'" tactic. [Of course, he surprisingly has a point: one of the key reasons why incest is bad is because it increases the odds of accidentally pairing rare and debilitating recessive traits. If the incestees do not have such traits, then the only problem is lack of variation).
"Catholics, for example, can marry their first cousins with the permission of their bishop"
This is far too hilarious to be true...tell me it isn't true.
Hmm. Looks from the comments section as if the Torygraph is the British fundies' publication of choice...
Oh, and trying to defend illogical theobabble from perfectly valid questions with even more theobabble is weak.
"If their genes were perfect then that isn't a problem. Note that according to Genesis Eve was effectively Adam's semi-identical twin sister: she was his flesh in the most complete sense (to be "one flesh" is part of the Christian notion of marriage)."
You seem a bit unclear as to how this whole genetics thing works.
"Indeed the prohibition against brothers and sisters marrying is practical rather than intrinisic: genes are no longer perfect and so close relatives can't get away with it. There would have been no problem with Adam and Eve's kids marrying each other."
You have no siblings I'm guessing? There's a bit more to the whole not wanting to fuck your sister bit than just the fact that your DNA isn't "perfect". Well, for most people anyway.
"Catholics, for example, can marry their first cousins with the permission of their bishop (who examines their family tree)."
I've read somewhere that it's not such a good idea to procreate with anyone more closely related to you than a second cousin as there's not enough genetic diversity. I don't care what some Bishop says unless he happens to have an advanced degree in genetics.
Well apparently, up until the 1980's, the RCC prohibited marriage between anyone second cousins or closer. But apparently this has changed, and Catholics can now marry second cousins. And, apparently, they can get a marriage to a first cousin with special dispensation.
But what the hell is that about "examines their family tree"?
Dude. Not even the Catholics take the story of Adam and Eve literally. It's a parable, because people back then couldn't understand anything more complicated.
But if you can show me where the bible says "Their genes were perfect, but turned unperfect", I'll give you a cookie. And no, I'm not asking for one short verse taken out of context and skewed to suit your needs.
Oh yeah...and they didn't have kids until after they were kicked out of the garden. So even if your crackpot theory was true, their kids are still inbred.
*head explodes from the stupid*
"... Catholics, for example, can marry their first cousins with the permission of their bishop (who examines their family tree)."
And cousins of other religions or none at all can legally marry in the UK and in slightly more than half of all states in America, regardless of whether a bishop is involved or not. Not illegal. (Still icky, though.)
"perfect genes"
There is no such thing, there are only genes. They may give you some nasty traits and features, but they are all "perfect", so to speak.
I'd have married my first cousin like a shot if she'd have had me. But she married someone else. We'd have had wonderful kids. Great, great genes.
Looking at her kids now, all grown up, I'd say her genes were pretty well perfect. Mine, I'm not so sure any more.
Adam and Eve, of course, are imaginary and couldn't have had any kids no matter how hard they'd tried, incest or not. And I never wanted to screw any of my sisters, although my friend Geoff at school fucked his and they (Geoff and his sister, not my sisters) seemed to think it was all right. He killed himself a few years later, though, so there you go.
fergus
So. We start off with 2 hypothetical people with perfect genes. How did their children gain imperfect genes??? Only one answer can be true, mutation, which is of course the basis for evolution, which kinda means that we don't need these 2 people to explain the origin of the human species. Hoisted by your own petard, Mr. Lorriman, hoisted by your own petard.
I've heard this shit before, always from Southern Baptists or a similar bunch (I was raised by 'em). It's totally stupid, of course; they are unable to explain exactly what "perfect genes" would be.
I think the whole thing comes from a desperate desire for permission to fuck their sisters in case they run short of pigs.
"Quickly, Marjorie, look! What in the world is that up there in our family tree?"
"I can't be sure at this distance, Donald, but with that funny pointed hat it looks like a Catholic bishop."
"Note that according to Genesis Eve was effectively Adam's semi-identical twin sister "
Chapter and verse, please
"Catholics, for example, can marry their first cousins with the permission of their bishop (who examines their family tree)."
Uh? I'm catholic and I never heard of that.
There would have been no problem with Adam and Eve's kids marrying each other.
I am astonished that nobody mentioned this yet:
Do we have here a fundie who (involuntarily) said that same-sex marriage is no problem? ;-> *evilgrin*
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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