Don't you love it, when they try to equate hating sinful behavior with hating the person?
The reason why I hate homosexuality and read very carefully! It is a behavior that marks rebellion against God and rejection of His word!
Homosexuality and its attendant behaviors--crossdressing etc is worship of self. Putting oneself and sexuality ahead of God. It is the most liberal Christians that whine for special protection and rights for this indecent behavior. It's not normal and it's self destructive. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that its harmful.
Trying the normalize this behavior and say it's OK is the most unloving thing you can do for someone trapped in this sin.
Let's use the example of the alcoholic:
Al loves his bottle. He takes it every where he goes. His freinds don't want to offend him or confront him about his getting drunk all the time. "He not hurting anyone", says his brother. Al spends all his personal time drinking. His freind even buy him wine and beer at social functions and weddings. He is even developing liver disease because of his habit. Despite this, Al manages to be sober enough in the morning to hold down his janitor's job. Now are Al's friend doing him any favors? Remember, this is a behavior pattern. It's debatable if given the right conditions that Al may have avoided this.
The truth is Al's family and friends are not doing him any favors by not getting him any help. That same is true of the homosexual. We have become a society of enablers. We enable people to live self destructive lifestyles instead of helping them deal with their sin.
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Homosexuality, as a concept, doesn't cause any physic or mental damage. Physic damage only occurs during dangerous relationship (as any other sexual orientation) and mental damage when people are forced in relationships (or looked down/persecuted for them, figures...)
Oh, and try to completely forbid alcohol while you're at it ! Shitstorm guaranteed !
The day your god appears in a Court of Justice, brings proof it has the power to lead our lives and the legitimacy to do it, I will reconsider my position on homosexuality. Until then, it remains "live and let live".
"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that its harmful."
- And yet, all you seem to have to support your position are assertions of opinion, appeals to myth and a false comparison to alcoholism. Ah yes, I also noticed the popular lie about non-straight people wanting "special" rights without any explanation of what those "special rights" are: a sure sign that you are parroting popular catchphrases with considering them.
I guess you're just not up to the task of building a real case to support your position. Don't sweat it though: no one on your side has been able to. That is why you are losing.
Then why do so many Christians seem to hate the sinner as well as the sin?
And chemical addiction is not the same as homosexuality which doesn't hurt anyone, and trying to "cure" gay people is far more harmful than just letting them be gay.
I have yet to hear of any crashes being caused by driving while gay.
Being gay doesn't affect job performance.
This bad analogy is just another pathetic excuse for poking your nose into other people's business.
If God didn't like homosexuality, he should not have created it. Do all the thousands of other species that also have homosexuality rebel against God?
Most gays do not cross-dress. Most cross-dressers are heterosexual.
Homosexuality IS normal; about 10 percent of the population is homosexual. The only destructive thing with it is the treatment they receive from homophobic bigots like you.
Alcoholism is a lousy comparison, asshole. Compare it with left-handedness or with people who are good with spatial issues rather than linguistic issues, if you have to compare. Alcoholics harm others while drunk; they say things they shouldn't, they often get violent, they neglect their family and friends, they harm their liver, kidneys and other parts of the body. Being attracted to a person of the same gender is a bit like being attracted to a person with big boobs or a large ass. It really doesn't harm anyone, and it is no-one else's business.
Alcoholism is indeed a behavior pattern. Homosexuality isn't.
We enable people to live lives of happiness, warmth and love, instead of repression, misery and lies.
Did I mention you're an asshole?
"Don't you love it, when they try to equate hating sinful behavior with hating the person? "
Don't you love it, when they try to hide hating the person behind that 'hate the sin but love the sinner' fig leaf?
"The reason why I hate homosexuality and read very carefully! It is a behavior that marks rebellion against God and rejection of His word!"
The reason you're full of shit and read very carefully! is that homosexuality is a behavior generated by the brains structure, and has nothing whatsover to do with your imaginary giant man who lives on clouds.
Unless you're right, and those gay penguins are gay because they're rebelling against that giant penguin who lives on clouds.
Homosexuality and its attendant behaviors--crossdressing etc is worship of self. Putting oneself and sexuality ahead of God.
Yeah, you don't know shit about homosexuality so your argument is invalid. Crossdressing is rare in homosexuals and more straight men cross dress than gay men. Extreme narcissism is rare as well, probably more rare than cross dressing. And many gays are Christian, but they tend to belong to more tolerant churches.
Two problems with the analogy:
(1) Being drunk all the time really does hurt the person and the people around him, while two consenting adults having sex doesn't. So what if a man has sex with another man? There's nothing harmful in having sex with a man - millions of women do it every night.
(2) Plenty of alcoholics have kicked the habit, whereas we have no evidence that a person can change his/her sexual orientation. If a straight can't turn gay, what makes you thing a gay person can turn straight?
Uh huh. Same-sex relationships aren't the same as a damaging addiction. They are relationships, just like any other. Unless you're totally against anyone having a significant other, you're being a hypocrite by being against same-sex relationships.
If you "hate the sin" you're still fucking prejudice and you're still hurting others by spreading that prejudice. I don't care how xtians try to justify it, it's still shitty. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that if society didn't stigmatize homosexual relationships there wouldn't be any negativity attached to being gay. Really, if society at large treated gay people the same as heteros, how would their lives be any different? Nobody can ever come up with one good example, because there isn't one.
Let's use the example of the alcoholic:
How about let's not. Let's use instead the example of the knitter.
Al loves his knitting. He takes it every where [sic] he goes. His freinds [sic] don't want to offend him or confront him about his knitting all the time. "He not hurting anyone", says his brother. Al spends all his personal time knitting. His freind [sic] even buy him wool at social functions and birthdays. He is even spending large amounts of money because of his habit. Despite this, Al manages to clear his mind of knitting enough in the morning to hold down his janitor's job. Now are Al's friend doing him any favors? Remember, this is a behavior pattern. It's debatable if given the right conditions that Al may have avoided this.
Or, how about this:
Al loves his gun. He takes it every where [sic] he goes. His freinds [sic] don't want to offend him or confront him about his talking about guns. "He not hurting anyone", says his brother. Al spends all his personal time cleaning his guns, shooting or hunting. His freind [sic] even buy him ammo at social functions and birthdays. He is even developing obsessions about the government because of his habit. Despite this, Al manages to be clear-headed enough in the morning to hold down his janitor's job. Now are Al's friend doing him any favors? Remember, this is a behavior pattern. It's debatable if given the right conditions that Al may have avoided this.
One thing I've noticed is that many people who claim "gays can change" appear to define 'going from gay to straight' as 'the person is no longer having same-gender sex!'
It doesn't matter if he/she still FEELS as attracted to the same gender as before and isn't very keen on opposite-gender sex; he/she used to have same-gender sex, but doesn't anymore. So they've gone straight!!
I question the sexual orientation of anyone who believes that everyone that is gay could just choose to be straight. That implies that the questioner has at some point made a choice.
Anyone who is truly straight knows that there is no choice.
"The reason why I hate homosexuality and read very carefully! It is a behavior that marks rebellion against God and rejection of His word!"
So does eating shellfish. So, have you picketed any Red Lobsters recently?
"Homosexuality and its attendant behaviors--crossdressing etc is worship of self."
Cross-dressing is a predominantly heterosexual activity. Aside from that, I'm not sure how such a thing would be considered "worship of self".
"It is the most liberal Christians that whine for special protection and rights for this indecent behavior. It's not normal and it's self destructive. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that its harmful."
Then you should have no trouble providing evidence that it is, indeed, "harmful".
"Let's use the example of the alcoholic:"
Bad analogy. Alcoholism actually is harmful, both to the alcoholic and those around them.
"Don't you love it, when they try to equate hating sinful behavior with hating the person?"
- Let me guess, some of your best friends are gay, right?
Bodily harm is not the same thing as what you guys see as "harming the soul" or "sinning". While alcoholism is an addiction, homosexuality is a sexual tendency/orientation, believe it or not, there are millions of homosexual virgins out there.
A gay men can do as much about being attracted to other men as I can do about being attracted to short foul-mouthed brunettes.
Oh yeah and for the rest:
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When applied to homosexuality, hating the sin/loving the sinner is like hating someone's brown eyes but loving that person.
The analogy with alcoholism fails as one can show that the alcohol is responsible for ill-behavior and disease whereas homosexuality, practiced with the same safe-sex techniques as heterosexuality, and without the persecution of the nasty elements of society, is not dangerous.
Uh huh. Same-sex relationships aren't the same as a damaging addiction. They are relationships, just like any other. Unless you're totally against anyone having a significant other, you're being a hypocrite by being against same-sex relationships.
If you "hate the sin" you're still fucking prejudice and you're still hurting others by spreading that prejudice. I don't care how xtians try to justify it, it's still shitty. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that if society didn't stigmatize homosexual relationships there wouldn't be any negativity attached to being gay. Really, if society at large treated gay people the same as heteros, how would their lives be any different? Nobody can ever come up with one good example, because there isn't one.
If "it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it [homosexuality] is harmful," why don't you explain to us the harm that it causes?
Your analogy to alcoholism is bunk. Alcoholism actually CAN harm people.
Your ilk have been howling for decades (centuries?) about the dangers of gaysex, but I've never heard one of you give a concrete example of the harm that it causes.
You don't want to have homosexual sex? DON'T. Nobody is trying to force you into a lifestyle that you don't agree with. All we're asking (demanding, really) is that you keep your religion from interfering with the lifestyles and the choices of others. It's that simple.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but alcoholism is incompatible with homosexuality. Unlike alcoholism, homosexuality is not harmful in and of itself. I see the only real reason you can site is based in your own religious beliefs, hence it is not a valid reason. This rant all boils down to your own religious delusion, and your attempt to have it forced upon others. You guys have proven that 'hating the sin' equates to hating the 'sinner' time and time and time again, and rational, reasonably compassionate people are sick of hearing it.
I guess the idea is that if you love God, you want to obey Him, and therefore you act straight no matter what your feelings are. "Worship of self" means that you would rather marry the person you love than the person who makes you look straight.
Which is a fucking awful way to live, and I reject it utterly.
Being left-handed used to be a stigma, and for no rational reason either. Some day being homosexual will be seen as being no more important than being left-handed.
Then the fundies will need a new enemy. Ideas, anyone?
"Don't you love it, when they try to equate hating sinful behavior with hating the person?"
Except Homosexuality (indeed, any sexuality) isn't a behaviour... it is a core part of a person's being.
Every time you say you hate Homosexuality, you are declaring that you hate what a person IS... which is most definitely hating the sinner.
The truth is that homosexuality is harmless, unlike being an alcoholic. I see you couldn't even be bothered coming up with a single example of how homosexuality could be harmful; why should I take you seriously?
Also, what dylanstrategie said. Call for an alcohol ban, you fucking hypocrite.
And this is why I hate Christians. They think (or at least want others to think) that they are helping people by shaming them into submission. Instead of accepting people for who they are, they see them as slaves to their sin who need to be saved. These bastards can make it seem as though their abusive behavior is in the best interests of others.
And those stupid analogies they use to justify their assholery as "loving" make me grit my teeth. They're abusive monsters and should be treated as such.
It is the most liberal Christians that whine for special protection and rights for this indecent behavior.
You'd be perfectly free to marry and have sex with another man as well. Therefore, there are no "special rights." The "special protection" is due to the ongoing discrimination against non-straights. If the discrimination goes away, the "special protection" will go away as well. In an ideal world, there'd be no need for anti-discrimination laws since no one would be pointlessly discriminated against. Until such time, there need to be clear barriers to discriminating against minority groups.
When you show me a gay person actually hurting themselves or others through their sexuality, I may actually listen. Note that "he's/she's offending my beliefs" is not a real hurt, and you'll have to prove that there is a god and an afterlife for the "they won't get into heaven" argument to hold water. Lastly, I've never seen a report of someone being killed in a car crash that was the result of Driving While Gay.
Yeah, remember all that stuff Jesus said about homosexuality....oh wait.....
And I'm still trying to figure out how a sex act between consenting adults that you never even know about has any bearing on your life or is any way 'immoral'.
Don't you love it, when they try to equate hating sinful behavior with hating the person?
Let's ask Matthew Sheppard and the people who got their faces bashed in during Stonewall how "Hate the sin, love the sinner" worked for them.
Niiice analogy. So we have an alcoholic who is functional enough to be able to hold a job, even when he's developing a liver disease as alcohol is scientifically proven to do and it comes as no surprise. What can the friends do, except to tell him "dude, drinking that much can't be healthy, maybe you should go see a doctor"? Even if his health is at risk, it's not like he's in any immediate danger to himself or others.
Same with homosexuality, except for the fact that there's no proof whatsoever that it causes any harm to anyone , so nobody is obligated to do anything about it.
If a person's behaviour is innate, part and parcel of them, then, effectively, you are hating the person in hating that behaviour.
Why do you not hate divorce, eating shellfish, wearing mixed fibres, etc, as strongly as you hate homosexuality?
Crossdressing is not necessarily homosexual.
"Trying the (sic) normalize this behavior and say it's OK is the most unloving thing you can do". Really? I can think of lots more unloving things to do than that.
The big difference between the alcoholic and the homosexual: Drinking to excess and often is bad for you. Same sex attraction, and homosexual sex, is not necessarily bad for you. It's bad for you to the same degree that heterosexual sex is bad for you.
So, we can't prevent it on those grounds. So the only thing you have left is "it's bad because the Bible says so". How do you know the Bible is right? "Because the Bible says so".
You could make a case that inserting things in your rectum is bad for you, especially large things inserted vigorously. But heterosexuals do that as well.
So, if you really "hate" behaviours that are bad for you, all you've got is "large things being repeatedly vigorously inserted into the rectum". That isn't identical with homosexuality. Homosexual sex might not include an anal component, or a penetrative component.
It is a behavior that marks rebellion against God and rejection of His word!
Then God should not have made them that way.
It's not normal and it's self destructive.
How?
Let's use the example of the alcoholic:
And here is the non-sequitur, fundies seem inordinately fond of these I notice.
Bible God, the deity of choice for those self-absorbed and mean-spirited individuals whose natural inclinations are for hatred and for being busybodies. Bible God, the deity of choice for those prurient individuals who gladly reflect the obsessive interests of their chosen sky beast. Bible God, the deity of choice for those individuals who prefer to wallow in ignorance.
crossdressing etc is worship of self
In all of the artists' impressions of Jesus I've seen, he's never wearing pants, he's always wearing a sort of dress.
So Jesus was a self-worshipping crossdresser with a self-destructive lifestyle?
Hey, you said it, not me.
"Don't you love it, when they try to equate hating sinful behavior with hating the person? "
Yes. Because really that's all that it is. Nothing more than thinly veiled bigotry and hate. Thinly veiled judgmental attitude
Which the post you make shows.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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