Well; The POINT was as LONG as the Alt-Med people still FULLY SUPPORT CONVENTIONAL MODERN MEDICINE AS WELL, then they are okay. Once they reject Conventional Medicine, Science, embrace garbage like Anti-Vax, get all "tin-foil-chapeau" over the medical industry to the point of absurdity, etc. THEN THEY SHOULD BE CALLED OUT AND NIPPED IN THE BUD!
It's not always Either/Or. That's a false dichotomy. You can still embrace Complementary Medicine (Con-Med with Alt-Med) and still speak out against the Alt-Med-Only bunch.
Healing is just as much about one's Mind/Soul as it is Body and they are all linked. Holistic Alt-Med would make the Con-Med work better. You'll heal faster and perhaps require less drugs.
It's a little something called BALANCE.
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No offense, but I do not believe that Complmentary medicine can equally join conventional medicine with new dangle oflr outdated homeopathy.And you know, if all of these healing crystals, strange diets, and toxicity cleansing through worked, medicine companies would be lapping up patents for them like water.
While I disagree very much with SpukiKitty's views, that's not really what I would call fundie. Sure, it's all woo, but she isn't pushing her beliefs on others or being nasty/evil about them.
The balance is a fallacy.
There is no balance.
@ Katie : Yes and No.
My mother was a medical woo adept and a crook took advantage of it and managed to convince her into trying to cure her cancer with homeopatic crap.
This incident help me to understand that ignorance, irrationality must be fought. No matter the cost.
'Alt-Med' has repeatedly been shown to basically be total woo, which is why it's 'alternative medicine' and not 'medicine', but it doesn't really matter if someone, say, takes an antibiotic to clear up their infection then meditates with a crystal, as long as they take the antibiotic. The crystal meditation will have zero effect, for good or for ill.
Now, if people were to start saying that crystal meditation is to be done INSTEAD of taking the antibiotic, that is entirely different.
Massage, laser therapy, acupressure and puncture, herbology etc. All complimentary therapies. All backed up by peer review and replicable results.
@ Spuki kitty :
Even if they have the correct equation and calculations, because theyr were fed garbage data mean the result will be garbage.
Worse, by treating woo as equal of science, you validate pseudo-science. And let reason and critical thinking dying.
@John
The only part of that list that is even sort of right is 'herbology' - and that is only because those herbs traditionally used to treat conditions have been analysed, the active ingredients identified, and then those active ingredients put into drug treatments in mainstream medicine. Laser treatment has one or two studies that tentatively conclude that it is possible there may be some benefit, which is contradicted by many other studies that show no benefit whatsoever. Acupuncture and acupressure are both 'treatments' that don't even have a logical mechanism of action, far less anything else. The various papers that come out concluding that there is any benefit to them are fairly swiftly criticised for being heavily flawed, such as excluding data that doesn't support the conclusion or failing to account for treatments other than acupuncture on the subjects, and massage is actually used in mainstream medicine for certain things.
Should chemistry be "complemented" with alchemy? No? Why then should it be acceptable, no, desirable, to contaminate the science that deals with our very health and lives with falsified woo?
Once they reject Conventional Medicine, Science
Complementary Medicine (Con-Med with Alt-Med)
Healing is just as much about one's Mind/Soul as it is Body and they are all linked.
Holistic
Alt-Med would make the Con-Med work better. You'll heal faster and perhaps require less drugs.
It's a little something called BALANCE.
At first, I was gonna ask if we were eating our own when I saw Spuki's name here. I'm... So confused. I mean, I'm all for pot and paganry, we all know this. But... C'mon, girl, damn.
My big issue is that there are a large number of alternative medicines that not only don't work, but are genuinely harmful, that get pushed. Like Trepanation, where they literally drill a hole in your head. Or that one treatment that involves staring at the sun and walking barefoot outside everyday. Including in the WINTER.
I will be reasonable and assume that you consider these harmful practices as bad, whether practiced with legit medicine or not, as bad, and practices that should be nipped in the bud. I just wanted to make it clear, since no one else was talking about this issue.
Some herbal remedies do work. It's how a lot of people got by/get by in places with little to no conventional medicine, or where it's too expensive to access. I believe Spuki is a Pagan, which is why she makes the reference to herbal remedies, and the wise men/ women of the past used them, and they worked, at least temporarily.
Also most of the modern medicine we have now started out as woo medicine and poison, so don't knock it all.
@RiJayden
Such is the point though, these things are constantly tried and experimented upon and those which pass, pass, the beauty of the scientific method is that it knows no freinds nor foes.
Also, Slaanesh
It is known as quality testing ourselves against each other in order to improve. If we didn`t, why our motto?
@Doubting Thomas
@Skide
TL;DR
@ sister of battle:
Better to hand the alt-right a small victory than to indulge your idea.
You saw a weakness at this site, and instead of doing what you could to fix it, you tried to sweep it under the rug.
In exchange for even more politeness in the present, you were willing to cause us far greater harm in the long term.
I'd almost be tempted to give this a pass, were it not for that last line. Conventional medicine cannot be balanced by "alternative" remedies anymore than evolution can be balanced by creationism. If what is offered was of any value, you'd be best served by trying to incorporate it into the conventional system. Claiming it as an alternative without real proof is wrong.
As far as I'm concerned SpukiKitty can believe what she likes. If she wants to believe crystals and meditation and whatnot will improve the effectiveness of medicine then as long as she realizes just how fatal it is to eschew proven methods there's nothing to complain about. Alternative medicine is a bunch of woo but consider for a moment that placebos can have a physical effect on the body as well simply because people think they will. Whether her alternative medicine has any intrinsic worth past psychosomatic response or not is kind of beside the point when you take the stance that nothing's risked or spent but her own free time and resources once her practical concerns are seen to. Exploiting these beliefs for financial gain on the other hand is an issue for me and I'd readily point out you're wasting your money but again without extraordinary pressure that's your own choice. What makes a fundie is their need for things to be done their way and their willingness to endanger themselves or enforce their beliefs at somebody else's expense. She can be opinionated and aggressive times but I have a hard time believing she'd badger someone who doesn't believe in alternative medicine to try it out if they protest let alone prioritize her belief over someone's health and safety.
It's like a quote we had a while back about some people praying for rain. There's no point raking people over the coals when the worst they do is waste their own time. You might as well throw rocks at somebody for having a lucky keychain. Who cares if somebody's superstitious? It neither breaks my leg or picks my pocket. If we're going so far as to attempt to publicly humiliate people for having a single belief out of line with our own then we my friends have turned fundie.
@sister of battle:Maxim 29: Enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, no more, no less.
@The Angry Dybbuk:
@ Pharaoh Bastethotep:
You're an adept at not actually listening to everything people tell you.
I'm not going to argue with someone who just, for sure, knows he's right - especially not after your laughable response to my most recent comment aimed at you.
I call you a secular heresy hunter (def. 2a) - and yes, yes you are - and your response is to shriek to the rafters that I think science is a religion. Um, no.
ETA: Where did I supposedly claim science is a religion? (You're going to need a lot of time because I've never fucking said that .)
I'm serious, Pharaoh: You made the claim. Show me where I supposedly said that.
Check the dictionary definition of "heresy" (def 2a) that I handily included above for your edification.
You. Are. A. Heresy. Hunter. You earned the title fair and square.
Ok, since I'm somehow responsible for this whole discussion I would like to intervene.
Why don't we all cool down for a day or two? Reread the statements. Do some rethinking?
Because, as much as I agree with Skide, this being not a "eat-ourselves-buffet" but some kind of "quality control"*, I'm worried that it has gone destructive now.
While I disagree with Spuki here, she does not come across as fundie. She is not mean spirited, cruel or hateful as we see actual fundies are. And while I mostly agree with Pharaoh he seems to be coming across as unreasonable. He is correct factually, on that I agree with him. I just wish he wouldn't be so harsh on the users here as I thought FSTDT was against that kind of mean spirited behaviour
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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