For the same reason we don't kill ourselves to get to heaven.
For example, it's one thing to give up your life for another. It's another thing to kill yourself for another. Taking your own life is a sin.
Lot couldn't offer himself. That would have been a sin. But he was willing to give up what was most precious to him - his own flesh and blood. Not that the men of Sodom wanted him or his daughters anyways. Lot was a sojourner among them, meaning he lived with them but he wasn't one of them. They could have insisted on having sex with them long before the angels arrived.
The men of Sodom wanted to know the angels.
Ask yourself one question. If a bunch of women wanted to have sex with you, how much resistance would you put up? It depends on the man. Some men would welcome the chance to have sex with them. Others would say no. If they were forced, then we would call it rape. The same thing applies to women. Some women will have multiple sex partners and enjoy it but if they are forced, then we would call it rape.
Now imagine a society without any law against sex. In this society, having sex is as common as two people shaking hands. In fact, it is considered rude and impolite to refuse to have sex. Not that they force anyone. No. They're not rapists. However, they do consider it rude, impolite, and even selfish to refuse pleasure when it is offered....
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Lot couldn't offer himself. ... But he was willing to give up ... his own flesh and blood.
So, relatives are more his own flesh and blood than himself?
"Now imagine a society without any law against sex. In this society, having sex is as common as two people shaking hands."
Oh, believe you me, there hasn't been a month in the past 20 years when I haven't spent at least some time imagining that.
*sly grin*
However, thanks to people who stubbornly cling to Bronze Age superstitions and Dark Age ideals (to whit: organized religion, especially monotheism) with greater zeal than any drug addict to the prospect of his next fix, I will be forced to continue imagining it, as opposed to appreciating the reality of it. Barring a concerted effort on the level of the Manhattan Project or the Apollo missions to break this anti-sexual conditioning that still pervades even the more enlightened nations of the world, so will my grandchildren (I'm not quite 36 years old, and currently am happily childless) when their adolescence has ended.
"If a bunch of women wanted to have sex with you, how much resistance would you put up?"
To be perfectly honest, if a whole bunch of women wanted to have sex with me, I would suspect something is going on that is not entirely in my favour. What's your point?
Now imagine a society without any law against sex. In this society, having sex is as common as two people shaking hands. In fact, it is considered rude and impolite to refuse to have sex. Not that they force anyone. No. They're not rapists. However, they do consider it rude, impolite, and even selfish to refuse pleasure when it is offered....
Sounds like a great idea! Quick, run over there and f*** yourself.
Gah! What is it with you fundies and sex all the damned time!!?? You couldn't get laid if you crawled up a chickens' ass and waited.
The people of Sodom thought to gain money or riches, and when they found that to be untrue, the people of Sodom wanted to drag the 'guests' out into the street and kill them.
Ok, to adress your first point: Lot offering himself would be a sin, but offering his daughters, who he should protect, is not a sin? That is a very slippery slope, because you value the gravity of sins in the name of god. Not a good idea for a christian, I think.
"The men of Sodom wanted to know the angels." There are a bunch of explanations, that this does not have anything to do with sexual preferences, but more with the wish of domination and unhospitality.
If a bunch of women wanted to have sex with me, I would decline, since your God decided in his wisdom, that I was born gay. Also orgies are just not my preference, when it comes to sexual encounters.
I honestly don't understand your last point.
And you try to arrange this vast ammount of unconnected ideas arround the thesis, that killing oneself is a sin? Sorry, you lost me somewhere. Nice try, but no cigar for you.
peace
alex
"If a bunch of women wanted to have sex with you, how much resistance would you put up?"
Well I would want to use a condom.
And if I was playing a video game...
"Lot couldn't offer himself".
Ehm, if he offered himself, wouldn't he have given up his life for his daughter and therefore not committed a sin?
"If a bunch of women wanted to have sex with you, how much resistance would you put up? "
Depends. if I had some free time and protection at hand, why not? If on the other hand I had to i.e. defuse a nuclear time bomb and\or deliver some medicine through the blizzard to the little orphanage in the woods asap and the women were ruthless agents of destruction who's only function was to stall me, I would have to try to outrun them, since I can't really put up much physical resistance.
"Now imagine a society without any law against sex. In this society, having sex is as common as two people shaking hands. In fact, it is considered rude and impolite to refuse to have sex. Not that they force anyone. No. They're not rapists. However, they do consider it rude, impolite, and even selfish to refuse pleasure when it is offered...."
Read 'Brave New World'. You'll like it, really...
The men of Sodom wanted to know the angels.
Is that even possible? From what I learned about the real life day to day problems of angels from watching Dogma, angels don't exactly have the equipment down there for all that.
"Ask yourself one question. If a bunch of women wanted to have sex with you, how much resistance would you put up?"
I'd pump up my Lords of Acid mix tape and have an orgy.
Now imagine a society without any law against sex. In this society, having sex is as common as two people shaking hands. In fact, it is considered rude and impolite to refuse to have sex. Not that they force anyone. No. They're not rapists. However, they do consider it rude, impolite, and even selfish to refuse pleasure when it is offered....
It's called Brave New World and it is a masterpiece written by Aldous Huxley.
Just thought you'd like to know where your premise originated.
rude and impolite to refuse sex? LMAO!
us Southerners, for the most part, are considered friendly and polite . Now ya'll know why. Lustful wenches and rakes, we are.
Something called CONSENT missed your way. And by the way, your reasoning is ridiculous. So, Lot can't offer himself, because it's a sin. Has he thought on the terrible sin that their daughters would be committing, following his logic?. Has he thought that his rights end where other people's rights begin?. Worse, are you hinting that you're authorised by God to use people on your benefit, without even thinking on their welfare?(Or could it be that Lot didn't want to be raped but, at the same time, to turn up to be the hero of the day). And by the way, wasn't it supposed to be that women were deprived of rights in Biblical times for their "protection"?, couldn't you stop using euphemism and say "ok, yes. It's not worth being a Christian unless you're a white straight man"?. At least, you'd be honest.
@picklemonster:
Bonobos are the ones that have sex all the time. But, they are neither monkeys (they are apes) and they don't torture monkeys (or apes). It's the chimpanzees that torture other primates. They are the ones that will take a monkey, ape, or human and tear it apart.
"Ask yourself one question. If a bunch of women wanted to have sex with you, how much resistance would you put up?"
Not much. It's been a while. I would probably suspect an ulterior motive though.
Hmmmm. It was pointless and illogical to begin with. Then, in the last two paragraphs, he wanders off into his own masturbatory fantasy, which is also pointless.
Fail.
"In this society, having sex is as common as two people shaking hands. In fact, it is considered rude and impolite to refuse to have sex. Not that they force anyone. No. They're not rapists. However, they do consider it rude, impolite, and even selfish to refuse pleasure when it is offered...."
I'm not certain where you're going with this, but barring your death, hologramatic revival, and a slapstick yet successful mindpatch you won't have to worry about dealing with such a horrific society.
Basically, Lot gave up his daughters to be raped by the angry mob. And he was God's good guy.
This story makes me extremely thankful that my dad is not religious.
Lot couldn't offer himself.
Why the fuck not? Seems to me, that qualifies as the self-sacrifice quota. So why not? Why, rather than offering himself to placate the crowd, did he say "Here, take my daughters, and have fun."
The men of Sodom wanted to know the angels.
The men of Sodom wanted to degrade and KILL the angels, as they were outsiders. The sin of Sodom was not homosexuality. And it was not sex. It was a tale of warning against adherents of Judaism who were inhospitable.
So, he couldn't give himself to save the angels(wait, why would Jesus sacrifice himself?)but he can dispose of his daughters as if they were his property, because killing another person is bad?. Sorry, no FUCKING SENSE.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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