A genuine atheist should have no problem at all proving their convictions by committing suicide at a moments notice.
A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition. So are you truely denying a higher order or are you just an antagonist?
Prove it by suicide.
71 comments
"A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition." - False
If anything, an atheist believes life is valuable without any big imaginary friend telling him so. Therefore, an atheist belief in the value of life is more profound that the one of a fundie, who does so just to please his imaginary friend.
My response to Anonymous Coward: You First.
I will never understand how not believing in deities somehow equates to "A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition."
Every atheist that I know values life as much as anyone else.
...while genuine theists should have no problem committing suicide either, because they know God is waiting for them.
Just take a look at Rapture Ready and you'll see so many people who are just itching and waiting for it all to end. The sooner the better.
It's really fucking scary and heartbreaking, to be honest.
It's funny, though, how there are no such things going on in atheist world. There's been hundreds of Christian doomsday cults, terrorist groups, and such. They don't need any encouragement to do so.
Yet, here you are, finding it necessary to actively urge atheists to prove themselves by committing suicide. Apparently atheists need encouragement for some reason.
Oh shut the fuck up. You have no idea what atheists think about life. Mainly, that since this is the only life we get then it is dearly precious, especially since we humans are lucky to have even existed in the first place.
You really don't know what atheism is, do you, Coward? Or ar you a troll?
A genuine atheist values life, in and of itself. S/he thinks that this is all that we're ever going to have and when we die, we're gone, that's it. Why the fuck would we want to end our only chance at life prematurely?
Life is invaluable to an atheist. To a Christian, this is just a test for the real life afterwards. Who has the less intrinsic value for life by definition?
No, that seems to be the schtick of religious loonies.
Think 9/11 and Heaven's Gate.
You first. Prove that you really love Jesus by trotting off and meeting him.
A genuine christian should have no problem at all proving their convictions by committing suicide at a moments notice, because you'll go to heaven.
A true theist has no intrinsic value for life by definition, the only value is the afterlife. So are you truely believing a higher order or are you just lying?
Prove it by suicide.
As a genuine atheist, I value my life. There is no evidence for reincarnation, so I can assume that I will never have another one. There is no evidence for heaven, so I can assume that there is no spiritual afterlife. The fact that this is my one chance for accomplishing something makes my life more precious than someone who spends their whole life looking forward to an eternity in an imaginary world.
As for valuing life, I could write several pages on my experiences with empathy and compassion. However, I expect such talk would be lost on you.
While we're at it, the bible makes it very clear that your god is a big fan of martyrdom. And yet, I don't see legions of American fundamentalists flying out to Saudi Arabia to preach the good news there. Why aren't you doing so?
A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition.
Actually, an atheist has whatever value for life that he or she chooses to have.
Secondly, an atheist has no need to "prove their conviction" to you or to anybody else. The burden of proof is on the theists.
Now, let's look at your argument from another perspective: a Christian should have no problem at all proving their convictions by killing children at a moment's notice.
Surely, your God would send them to heaven, right? So they'd be in a better place. Think of all the suffering and strife you'd be saving them by sparing them a life in this fallen world. So, ultimately, you'd be doing them good. Am I right?
Excuse me?
How would suicide prove that I dont believe in any gods?
Surely if you believe in eternal life then there's nothing to prevent you, and a great deal to gain, from killing yourself. Indeed, plenty of religious people have done just that. Plenty of religious people have also killed those they disagree with because their victims have "no intrinsic value for life by definition."
A genuine christian should have no problem at all proving their convictions by committing suicide at a moments notice.
After all, a true christian has nothing to fear and only paradise to look forward to, a far more valuable existence by his own estimation.
So are you saying that there is no reason to be united with Jesus in heaven or are you just terrified to die because you aren't sure what comes after, or even if there really is a god at all?
Prove it by suicide. Onward, christian soldier!
"A genuine atheist should have no problem at all proving their convictions by committing suicide at a moments notice."
I'm sorry. What the fuck are you talking about?
"A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition."
You need a better dictionary if that's what yours has defined atheism as.
Try one that wasn't written by a fundamentalist nutjob.
"So are you truely denying a higher order or are you just an antagonist?"
Huh?
"Prove it by suicide."
Which would prove what, how again?
I'm guessing you're a conservative, right? Are you familiar with supply and demand? If there's an afterlife then you have an infinite supply of time. If there is no afterlife then you have a finite supply. Having an infinite supply of something, necessarily makes it worth less than having a finite supply. It doesn't even matter what the demand is; since we're talking about infinity, demand becomes virtually irrelevant. Now this doesn't prove that your life is worth less than mine, but it does contradict your point.
But, putting that aside, you don't get to declare what my life is worth, asshole. The law says it's worth as much as anyone else's and I say it's worth an immeasurable amount. Those are the only opinions that could possibly hold any weight. And some random asshole on the internet isn't going to convince me to kill myself just because he sees the life of a nonbeliever as worthless. Just as I'm not using the supply and demand argument to tell Christians to kill themselves.
A genuine Christian should have no problem at all proving their convictions by committing suicide at a moments notice.
A true Christian believes in a better life after death. So are you truly denying a higher order or are you just an antagonist?
as everyone has or will say, a person who believes this is the only life they get, will not do anything to lose it earlier than neccessary (subject to quite a few conditions)
A christian , believing in a life in heaven , should be doing dangerous things short of suicide. Jump in front of a bullet to save another, run into a burning building to save someone, leap into freezing water to save a puppy.
Well ...um...ok..I'll just take this gun and....wait a second...this is a trick question!
You religious types are so clever! As we know, its such a fine line between clever & stupid.
Although an agnostic myself, athiests believe that once we die, that's it. There is no life after death, we merely cease to exist. Knowing this, logically they should value their lives more than believers. Especially once you consider that many Christians merely think this life as a 'waiting room' for Heaven, being overjoyed to think it would come sooner.
Er...no.
A true atheist believes this life is the only one he has, so he'll hang onto it, and do his best to make sure it counts.
It's the Christians that treat this life as the divine waiting room for the next, just waiting out the clock.
Full disclosure: I am an atheist, and I have suffered from depression so severe that I twice contemplated suicide.
What prevented me from doing anything stupid was not the fear of going to Hell, but the realization that I would hurt the people who love me in the worst way imaginable.
Atheists believe that this is the only life you get, and the best way to live it is to love and be loved, to make the world a better place, and to die with as few regrets as possible.
I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else regarding my atheism. It's none of your business. Challenging someone to commit suicide to make yourself look clever is lower than dogshit.
What the actual fuck. If you believe that dying is simply ceasing to exist, why would you want to off yourself? How would it prove that you don't believe anything happens when you die? Unless you are severely depressed or find no happiness with your life, you'd want to continue to live. Even if you don't believe you'd go to hell you'd still want to keep living your life.
If you believe in heaven and that you've chosen the "right religion," then it would make sense to kill yourself. You'd go to heaven! And with the number of hardcore Christians saying they are "not of this world" and seem to loathe existing in general, you'd think they might think of this. Run to Jesus!
A true Christian believes in an afterlife.
So you commit suicide to prove you believe there's an afterlife, asshole.
To commit suicide (not counting cases of honor or self-sacrifice), one must first decide life has a negative value and that ending it would be the preferable course of action. If living is intrinsically meaningless, then the act of committing suicide is entirely without merit. It's just there, neither good nor bad, so one would just live it until it's over without applying artificial values to it.
But, of course, that's the interpretation of an absurdist. Atheism doesn't demand any value judgments, just merely a belief in no deity nor deity-like phenomenon. Atheism, in its broadest sense, doesn't even preclude religion or faith that's skepticism.
So, take care not to conflate atheism, agnosticism, skepticism, and absurdism. One can be all those things at once, and people often are, but none of those demands any of the others.
I should think Anonymous Coward is the one who thinks life has no "intrinsic" value (and, relatedly, that he doesn't know what "intrinsic" means).
An atheist who values life can only do so because of some inherent worth to that life. (Well, they could value someone else's life because of some tangible benefit it provides for them. But that's a different sort of "valuing".)
A fundamentalist, on the other hand, values life because god tells them to and for no other reason. When god tells them otherwise, they have no problem believing a particular life is worthless.
"A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition."
image
Remember kids:
1. Every life is precious, and has objective purpose, meaning, and/or value!
> A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition.
As a "true" atheist (i.e. someone who lacks belief in deities), I believe that life has value. Far more than what Christianity has ever put on life.
Awww shucks, Coward! You ruined my day!
}:>( ..........<load-load-load....click-Kah-BLAM!!>..............................
(picks up Nerf bullet and tries again) }:>D
Odd how I, an atheist/agnostic, found myself trying to convince a Christian that I found my life and his to have their own merits without external supernatural interference. His point of view was that life was intrinsically worthless until given purpose by God. My point of view is that life is for living and has all the purpose you make for it, has value to myself and to everyone my life touches.
Actually, YOU could prove your side is right by this method. After you die, send a postcard from Heaven and irrefutable proof that God exists, like one of his holy toenails or something. Then you will be forever proven right and I will personally kiss your ass.
I value my life more now because I know it's the only life I have.
Do not make the mistake of thinking you know what every atheist is,think,feels, or does.
That has to be the stupidest argument against atheism ever (and it's not even original). The value in life is what you make of it. If you want to waste your time kissing your friend-in-the-sky's ass your entire life, be my guest. I don't think it makes your life more valuable than mine.
A genuine atheist should have no problem at all proving their convictions by committing suicide at a moments notice. (Which convictions?)
A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition. (Which definition is that?)
Prove it by suicide. (Prove that heaven is real by suicide first.)
Really, the suicide test should be for Christians as they are the ones claiming ever-lasting life.
As an atheist, I'm not giving up my life voluntarily until I'm done with it.
P.S. Please do not assume to tell me what I believe nor claim to assess whether or not my atheism is "true." The lives of an actual human being can have value without needing a fictional character from the big book of ancient fairy tales giving it to him/her.
This is actually a very common apologetic argument. One of its biggest proponents was the late Francis Schaeffer, who was one of the key people who made abortion a big deal for protestants. If you read his book "The God who is There," one of his key arguments is to claim that existential despair and suicide are the only logical conclusions of atheism, and so anyone who claimed to be an atheist but hadn't faded into complete nihilism wasn't "living consistently with his beliefs."
I read his stuff while on my way out from Christianity, and was kind of surprised people took him seriously...
It's called 'survival instinct', asshole. Any animal that doesn't have it is probably an evolutionary dead-end. Oh, you don't accept the scientific evidence for evolution? Then you are hereby excluded from any rational conversation, and your ideas will be given no consideration.
Goodbye.
Another clever ploy whereby Anonymous Coward does the Fap Fantastic, hoping to wake up tomorrow and find all the atheists dead, tricked by his subtle trickery. But no, most of us are still here, still saying Bible God's a jerk, still saying Anonymous Coward's a jerk. Ha! We worshipers of Lord Athe are too smart for Anonymous Coward.
"A true atheist has no intrinsic value for life by definition."
Atheist: noun
A person who believes that no deities exist.
Nothing about the intrinsic value of human life in there.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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