[Chabad posts on its website a letter from a Catholic nun, who was in a relationship with a Jewish woman.]
Beware of the dangers of tragic stories
We want to be compassionate kind human beings and that sometimes can gradually lead to too much toleration.
Personalized heart-breaking stories can lead or manipulate more and more good people to making long-term incremental changes that eventually harm their own community. First comes recognition of the ‘pain’ of others with our empathy and sympathy, then some measure toleration, then more toleration and acceptance, and finally Laws are amended.
The politically-correct liberalization of Judaism in America with Jews re-writing the Laws to fit their modern social and political values and placate their egos has created a Holocaust of Assimilation and brought great damage to our families.
Publishing such a story pushes for some limited degree of emotional acceptance for homosexual couples and interfaith marriages. This is a line that should not have been breached.
52 comments
Chabad posts on its website a letter from a Catholic nun, who was in a relationship with a Jewish woman.
That's a whole load of boggle right there. And Chabad is an asshole frummer. But I repeat myself.
[Leighton Buzzard here, btw]
"[Chabad posts on its website a letter from a Catholic nun, who was in a relationship with a Jewish woman.]"
There's an Oscar-winning movie in that.
"Personalized heart-breaking stories can lead or manipulate more and more good people to making long-term incremental changes that eventually harm their own community."
The next thing you know, liberals will be passing law against beating someone up and tying him to a fence.
" has created a Holocaust of Assimilation and brought great damage to our families. "
Because that's what Hitler did, he vigorously enforced civil rights laws.
Edit: notice the comments about idol worshippers. Dumbass jewish fundies think christians worship statues. For additional irony, protestant fundies like to say catholics aren't christians because they worship statues.
I really wonder about people who argue against tolerance in any form.
But never mind that, I want to hear more about this nun having a hot lesbian affair with another woman.
Holocaust of Assimilation
I fucking hate how casually people use Nazis and the Holocaust and compare it to every inconvenience or different point of view they run across. And this one doesn't even make any goddamn sense. Holocaust of Assimilation? What is that? Are they being killed by Borg Nazis?
"The politically-correct liberalization of Judaism in America with Jews re-writing the Laws to fit their modern social and political values and placate their egos has created a Holocaust of Assimilation and brought great damage to our families."
Where have I heard something like this before? Oh yeah.
"We must keep the races pure!"
Really. How dare people reject those obsolete and bigoted authoritarian values? Next thing you know, we won't be able to point them at those damned (insert racial slur here) and yell, "HATE! KILL!" Who do they think they are? We do all the cherry picking around here!
The problem is, this comment is one of many (lots of which are quite supportive) posted about this article, which was originally a letter to the Lubavitcher Rebbe (zt"l). Personally, I'm glad Chabad published this letter at all.
Yeah, Jewish fundies exist, and I'm coming to terms with that, but I'm just glad that they make up a minority even among our Orthodox (well, okay some branches of our Orthodox). The Talmud says: "the highest form of wisdom is kindness". Let's continue to keep that precept.
@Dionysus:
Anon probably means 'We jews are being wiped out by interbreeding and cultural integration,' which is still a load of bullshit.
Also, anyone else's irony meter redzoning on this one?
Yeah, we get it, you would rather mindlessly defend your interpretation of a millennia-old collection of mythology than express the slightest measure of compassion and empathy for anyone not exactly like you. You don't need to reiterate it again.
@Mister Spak
"notice the comments about idol worshippers. Dumbass jewish fundies think christians worship statues. For additional irony, protestant fundies like to say catholics aren't christians because they worship statues."
Statues are considered rather important in numerous Christian denomination. I don't think it's outright worship, but there is a level of reverence involved.
So, to sum up, you're against tolerance, empathy, sympathy and acceptance if they are directed toward anyone who isn't like you.
"But never mind that, I want to hear more about this nun having a hot lesbian affair with another woman."
Me too. That sounds awesome.
Fundie to English Translation:
"If we let gay people tell their stories, other people might realise that they're just human beings like everyone else!"
"First comes recognition of the pain’ of others with our empathy and sympathy, then some measure toleration, then more toleration and acceptance, and finally Laws are amended."
Yeah, cuz being a hateful, sociopathic, mean, ornery, judgemental, brutish jerk is so much better than being a kind, giving, loving, charitable, peaceful, intelligent, good human being, gotcha....Well, I think you & your Demiurge are douchenozzles. Thank you.
Aww. Maybe one day I'll cram the last bit of my own personal empathy into a little ball and shove it away. Then I can make nonsensical comparisons to the Holocaust on things I disagree with, and speak to those of other faiths and sexual orientations with vitriol. Sounds like fun, but, it shan't be today.
You are even more disgustingly irreverant and malicious with the use of the term 'Holocaust' than Israel's current government.
And that's saying something.
Disclaimer: Nothing against the religion itself, (okay so there's more than a few passages in Abrahamic texts that scare the shit out of me and put me in a vengeful state of mind, but overall...) just the assholes using it and past atrocities committed against the innocent as an excuse for being such assholes. I mean seriously, what the fuck? Promising genocide against other countries? Do they mock their OWN suffering? jewish philosopher, who has shown up several times on this site with words to scare the living shit out of everyone by, is a prime example of that mindset.
Asshole.
In the words of some musicians whose names I can't remember: An injustice anywhere is an injustice... anywhere.
"The politically-correct liberalization of Judaism in America"
Okay, I was raised as an Orthodox Jew, so lemme stop you there. I'm calling bullshit on this. There is nothing even remotely progressive or politically correct about Judaism. This is a religion when you're meant to pray every day to thank God you were born neither a gentile nor a woman. Yeah, super PC, right?
Y'know, that was a huge buildup just to go beating the dead horse of miscegenation.
Then tossing homophobia in to further divide up everyone? Please.
Go beat off to the old counter-prop film "Don't Be A Sucker" so you might absorb an actual ideal (unity over divisiveness) instead of being all pent up and stupid.
Any moral system that makes it bad to feel empathy, sympathy, kindness, or compassion to certain people is WRONG.
a Holocaust of Assimilation
Well, if you want to make sure you're different and remain so, you could start out with your clothing.
For example, you could sew a big yellow David's star on the front of everything you wear. How about that?
And just to show you that two can play the game of words, you shouldn't worry too much about the Holocaust of Assimilation. I'm sure you'll come up with a Final Solution for your Jewish Question.
Doesn't sound too nice when other people use those analogies, does it?
Really, get a life. A nice reformed life.
"First comes recognition of the pain’ of others with our empathy and sympathy, then some measure toleration, then more toleration and acceptance, and finally Laws are amended."
Its because of that dynamic that Jews are no longer forced to live in ghettos or treated like resident aliens in most of the countries where they are born. Now granted, I know that rabbis look back on those times as "the good ol' days." After all, the rabbis had near total control over their communities then. But trust me, the popular condemnation of anti-Antisemitism and the closing of Jewish ghettos really is a good thing for humanity.
First comes recognition of the pain’ of others with our empathy and sympathy, then some measure toleration, then more toleration and acceptance, and finally Laws are amended.
That's a GOOD thing.
...Holocaust ...
GODWIN! You lose.
Gosh yes, who needs empathy?
....oh, yeah. People who aren't psycopaths...
"Personalized heart-breaking stories can lead or manipulate more and more good people to making long-term incremental changes that eventually harm their own community. First comes recognition of the pain’ of others with our empathy and sympathy, then some measure toleration, then more toleration and acceptance, and finally Laws are amended."
This is the slippery slope scenario. It implies we must always be rigidly opposed to anything not approved by the bible, and even the slightest hint of doubt will trigger an avalanche of permanenet destructive changes.
There is toleration.
There is no such thing as too much toleration.
There is no such thing as too little toleration.
There is only toleration.
But toleration cannot be conditional, else it becomes something other than toleration.
In other words, differention between ethnic groups, skin colours, belief systems, secual orientation, etc is not toleration. Real toleration obliterates differences and anathemises the concept of recognising such differetiation.
@Lizuka - I put this in FSTDT and not RSTDT because the opposition to same-sex relationships and intermarriage are based on religious reasons, not racial reasons. Judaism is not really limited to any particular race. There are in fact quite a few Jews of color but unfortunately they tend to be marginalized.
As a child of an interfaith marriage myself (my mother is Jewish and my father is an ex-Catholic), I've gotten the "cold shoulder" or the "pity treatment" from more religious Jews a few times. They tend to look down on me because my family isn't as authentically Jewish as they are. Most of them aren't like that, of course, but there are some real arrogant schmucks out there.
I think the overall point that tragic stories can manipulate people into bad decisions, purely because people want to be compassionate kind human beings, is a good one.
I mean, look at the MMR scare. Whenever it was reported, it was always through tragic stories of individual children who had supposedly suffered because of it, which ignored the thousands of children who didn't suffer the illnesses that they were safely vaccinated against. Looking at the facts, not only was there no danger but even if there had been the level of danger proposed, the government would still have had no choice but to push vaccination, because otherwise there would have been all these tragic stories of children dead from measles.
Or look at immigration. One side uses tragic stories of no room in the hospital or the school to push for no immigration at all. The other side uses tragic stories of immigrants who just want a better life, and of course our instinct is to let that particular person or family in, but we can't actually let everyone with a tragic story in. We need a nuanced position, based on facts, and tragic stories stop that.
Even though he mentioned the Holocaust, I won't Godwin myself, but do remember that Tragic Stories can be use to push for any emotional position, and cause us to disregard our basic principles.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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