[Originally Posted by Steezie
You didnt even read the link
So why do they still have these organs? Take whales, they have vestigial legs, they're useless for swimming and whales are FAR too big to walk, so the leg sizes must have changed over time....which sounds like evolution]
I know this stuff and don't like internet links. i've read it a thousand times.
The whales didn't evole but instantly adapted to new conditions. In fact probably within a creatures lifetime. So as long as the legs are out of the way there is no need for more atrophy. Same as birds who don't use their wings.
That few other creatures do not have vestigial organs is great evidence that they did not have different anatomical lives before. Like whales they would of kept bit and pieces of anything they no longer used.
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Within its lifetime? What, so the proto-whale jumped into the ocean and its hind legs instantly shrank?
Jeez, this is turning into another round of them claiming they believed the earth was round all along and science said it was flat, what with their constant spewing random nonsense and attributing it to our position.
EVOLUTION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! GOODNIGHT!
Oh, wait. Also: Then why do BABY whales, when they are BORN have the vestigial limbs?
Step right up folks, step right up! For the first time ever, and the only place in the world, our show tent offers you instant evolution! Watch an animal instantly adapt to its environment before your very eyes. Brought to you by the world renowned man of intelligence, RobertByers!
The whales didn't evole but instantly adapted to new conditions. In fact probably within a creatures lifetime.
The whales decided they didn't need legs, so they altered their egg and sperm cells so their babies would be born without legs.
So you believe that if I performed surgery to replace your lungs with gills and thus forced you to live in the ocean, your legs and arms would 'adapt' [read: evolve] into flippers?
Genetics and the modern understanding of evolution disagree.
If he's claiming that the whale's legs have simply atrophied, wouldn't that mean that with enough exercising and muscle training, the whales could get their legs back up to full strength to be able to walk on land again?
Oh wait, I forgot. This is all bullshit.
Oh, hey, that's perfect. I'll just throw this guy into the water and he should sprout gills right away, no problem.
"and don't like internet links"
Then what the fuck are you doing on the internet? Links are pretty essential, dumbass.
So why don't we instantly evolve when we move to a cold climate? Why don't I instantly evolve a fur coat? When I go swimming why don't I instantly evolve flippers?
Anyway the fact that we can't instantly evolve is used by fundies to dispute evolution. So please PICK A FUCKING ARGUMENT AND STICK TO IT!
Oh yes, you don't like reality, that's obvious. Internet links haven't added those vestigial legs to the whales, they do have. And by the way, why on earth are you using internet, if you don't like it?
Sounds like super-evolution to me.
This is really odd - his argument that individual whales instantly adapted sounds icnredibly like one of the creationist strawmen about evolution that they use to make it sound rediculous. But bobby here is saying that's how it actually happend.
Think my brain has exploded!
What Robert Byers proposes isn’t Lamarckian Evolution; it’s simply magic.
Let’s say a guy ends up in a wheelchair, paralyzed as the result of a car accident. His legs will atrophy over time, especially if he doesn’t get occupational therapy. Any children he fathers after that should have the same problem, assuming Byers’ “theory” is correct.
*Goes away to do a bunch of scientific-y stuff.*
After wading through all the available evidence e.g., the millions of cases of paralyzed parents producing children with working legs I have concluded that Byers’ theory is unlikely to be correct.
Thank you. Please come again!
@Septic Sceptic
Please don't post pictures of John Prescott. It's not big and it's not clever.
I really don't think I could be more offended even if someone posted a naked picture of bro Randy. (that is not an invitation to do so.)
Did he seriously say that whales evolved to live in an aquatic environment within a creature's lifetime? PLEASE TELL ME HE DIDN'T SAY THAT!!!!
So, I suppose it's only a matter of time before we find the beluga breeding ground in the Sahara desert, then we can all watch the "March of the Whales" on the discovery channel....Morgan Freeman will be the narrator.
Do I need to say it? I suppose I should. "EVOLUTION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!"
It's funny 'cause his belief resembles the strawman that creationists like to tear apart.
Edit: Damn, Katsuro beat me to it. Note to self: read the whole thread before posting.
Oh great, now they're actually starting to believe their own strawman arguments!
You're supposed to be accusing US of thinking that evolution involves spontaneous mutations. YOU believe every animal that exists today is identical to the one God made six thousand years ago.
Edit: Oh, sod it, this looks really stupid now. Thanks a bunch, above guys!
Your explaination is more complicated and has more holes in it.
By the power vested in my by the Razor of Ochamm, I command you to slim your thesis down to something sensible.
Developed new conditions? I keep hearing fundies say things like this to try and skirt around things that can't be explained by religion, but CAN be explained by evolution: "The animals just diversified" "Well there's genetic variation, but it's NOT evolution" "Micro-evolution happens, but you can't really CALL it that, but Macro-evolution totally no"
"In fact probably within a creatures lifetime."
Tell me, Robert - if I drown you, will you grow gills?
And this is why nobody has ever drowned.
Oh, wait, this is the real world. Nevermind.
obviously he's just trying to say that some kind of elephant like creature found that it had swum too far off shore and decided that rather than trying to swim back, it should just stay in the water. It then of course decided that it might as well start eating fish... caught with its trunk... which also doubles as a snorkel... and there you have it, after only a few years of swimming around the elephant (or other large land dwelling creature) has totally altered its own physiology, diet and behavior. It then has freaky underwater sex with another "water elephant" and then we realize that it has altered its own DNA! So the baby elephant has inherited all the new traits of the parents. Tada! Whales in only a few years!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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