[Obviously, he knows if you'll choose him or satan, so he knows if you'll go to hell or heaven, so why bother creating hell bound souls?]
I don't know biblically, i'm not going to B.S., but my guess is that he's maximizing saved souls w/o incurring the rapture (ending earth, freezing the population of human souls). Even if he creates unsaved souls, God is Just because they made the decision for themselves. WE NEED TO LEARN TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS, YOU CHOSE YOUR ACTIONS.
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Ahh, typical fundie double-speak. He does not crteat hell bound souls, he just creates sould he knows will be hell bound. Also, you choose to go to hell even though it is obviously predestined that you go to hell. Yeah, nice guy..
These souls chose to go with God's wishes regarding where they were born, so they deserve to go to hell. They knew they wouldn't hear the word. And never mind that refusal to go along with God would have resulted in hell, because God would never put someone in a situation where they can't make the right decision. *cough*AdamandEve*cough*
Either they have free will, and are thus not hell-bound, or god made them hell-bound, and nothing they can do will change it. Which is it?
I thought the fundie mantra was "faith, not works" - so what "actions" is he talking about taking responsibility for? The only action that matters according to fundies is whether or not you believe in Jesus' mercy. So the only decision God is allowing us to make that has any afterlife outcome is whether or not to accept Jesus. There's no way God can come out as making any sense in fundie theology.
If God is our father, he's a damn lousy parent. First, God/Jesus creates hell. Then he continues to "allow" most of his children to be sent there for eternity. It's as if I left a burner on the stove "on" and then claimed that my toddlers were all at fault for repeatedly burning themselves.
Ahem... excuse me, you haven't actually answered the question. What you have done was perform the classic fundie double-dodge. He's "maximizing saved souls w/o incurring the rapture"? What the fuck does it mean to maximize souls? Are you reading what you're writing? Does this actually make sense to you?Even if he creates unsaved souls, God is Just because they made the decision for themselves.
So even though god knew that those souls would burn in hell, he still created them in order for them to make the "decision". Well done, god. You're an idiot.
"Even if he creates unsaved souls, God is Just because they made the decision for themselves."
Even if he creates unsaved souls, God is Just because they made the decision for themselves. forces them to perform Action X, then sends them to hell for performing Action X, then that person is blameless because that person performed Action X.
So if I hold a gun to your head and demand that you rob a bank for me, then you should be charged with bank robbery and I should be let free without charges because you robbed the bank. *rummages around for AK-47*
@PapabearIf God is our father, he's a damn lousy parent. First, God/Jesus creates hell. Then he continues to "allow" most of his children to be sent there for eternity. It's as if I left a burner on the stove "on" and then claimed that my toddlers were all at fault for repeatedly burning themselves.
More like torturing the child and all of his/her descendents because (s)he touched the burner in the first place.
@David D.G.Free will and predestination: Two phenomena that CANNOT both exist in the same universe at the same time.
Technically, this is not true. It's possible to be predestined from birth into either heaven or hell and have free will during your life. Such a belief is pessimistic (since we're all pawns), it makes God a monster (since he tortures innocent people) and could lead to moral depravity (a short life on Earth is irrelevant when compared to and has no influence on an infinite afterlife) but it is internally consistent.
I've had a fundie insist that free will could coexist with a completely deterministic future, though. She said God knew everything that happened in the future; when I pointed out that this means no one has free will (including God), she repeatedly denied the contradiction. She gave an example; "If you saw your child playing on the railroad tracks tomorrow, wouldn't you tell him to avoid the tracks today?" I turned the analogy against her, saying: "Either it's possible to prevent the child from going to the railroad tracks in the first place tomorrow, or it isn't. If it is possible to stop the child from doing this, then we can't truly predict the future; your vision did not come true, and there's no reason to believe it would have come true without your action. Your "vision" could have been a mere panic attack. If it isn't possible to stop the child from doing this, then we have no free will; his actions were predetermined, and nothing can change them." Faced with this rebuttal, she said: "But since you really love your child, you'd warn him of the danger," and failed to see that this does not resolve the contradiction. Somewhere along the lines, she also proclaimed that free will and a completely predetermined future were mutually consistent, because "God's love" somehow magically resolved the obvious contradiction.
@The JamoAhem... excuse me, you haven't actually answered the question. What you have done was perform the classic fundie double-dodge. He's "maximizing saved souls w/o incurring the rapture"? What the fuck does it mean to maximize souls? Are you reading what you're writing? Does this actually make sense to you?
Even my Acme Translator coughed a bit on that one. The best translation I can get is: "God is not capable of creating only souls predestined to be saved. He wants to create as many "saved" souls as possible, but in order to do this, he must create "damned" souls as well. My guess is that he's maximizing "saved" souls (and creating "damned" souls as an unavoidable byproduct) because he considers this preferable to starting the Rapture and not making any more souls at all." He then tries to defend God's creation of "damned" souls on a moral basis, and fails miserably.
WE NEED TO LEARN TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS, YOU CHOSE YOUR ACTIONS."
so why do you say jesus suffered for your sins. Shouldn't you be held accountable for actions and reasoning(or lack thereof)?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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