critty #fundie

critty #fundie prophecyfellowship.org

Well, this past summer when it was time for us to get the chicken pox booster that is required, the nurse got out two more needles for my 12 year old and I said, "whoa, what is that for?" She said, "well, they are not mandatory but one is for HPV and the other for meningitis." I said, "If it's not mandatory, you should ask me first." I wonder how many other parents just go in and let their kids shot with anything without asking or being asked? Needless to say my daughter did not get either because thankfully our doc did not recommend either at this time.

64 comments

old comment by

Not fundie- smart. I agree that nurses should not inject kids with any vaccine without getting permission from the parents.(Especially ones that are not covered by the insurance and cost $300!)
As for the HPV shot, there are over 100 types of HPV, and there are about 30 that are spread through genital contact. Of these 30, more than a dozen cause cervical cancer.The HPV vaccine protects against 4 types (16, 18, 6 and 11).
So, the HPV shot cannot prevent a girl from getting HPV, or cervical cancer. It can help reduce the risk in some, and (since condoms do not protect against HPV) give a false sense of security in others:
"It's okay if you have HPV- I had the shot."

old comment by Pete

@ anonymous:

#741448

2008-Sep-27 04:17 AM

Especially ones that are not covered by the insurance and cost $300!)
As for the HPV shot, there are over 100 types of HPV, and there are about 30 that are spread through genital contact. Of these 30, more than a dozen cause cervical cancer.The HPV vaccine protects against 4 types (16, 18, 6 and 11).
So, the HPV shot cannot prevent a girl from getting HPV, or cervical cancer. It can help reduce the risk in some, and (since condoms do not protect against HPV) give a false sense of security in others:
"It's okay if you have HPV- I had the shot."

Seems that the anti-vaccination liars are just as bad as the liars-for Jebus.

old comment by SomeoneAwful

You DO realize that vaccines can kill your child, right? I realize it because I had to sign waivers every time my children were vaccinated - the bottom line always read that there was a possibility (however slim) of death. You, Vaccinator (great anti-superhero name), may have just signed your own child's death warrant.

HPV doesn't kill anyone. Apparently most hetero women have one strain or the other of it - and only 3700 die per year in the US from cervical CANCER (which may or may not be due to HPV in individual cases); while the vaccine protects against a couple strains.

Hedging your bets is one thing; mass vaccination on the off chance of preventing a small handful of deaths (while protesting that not vaccinating is akin to murder) is another.

old comment by Michael

@Natasha #741758 2008-Sep-27 09:55 AM

"In New Zealand had an epidemic of meningitis that was halted thanks to vaccination campaign. Risk of anaphylactic reactions from vaccine- <0.01%. Since all vaccinations occured under medical supervision. 0 deaths in the country. Chance of death if child has meningitis- 10-15%. (http://www.immune.org.nz/?T=757#mg10)

I don't get why people don't want immunisations, I really don't."

These are fundies, Natasha. They see evil in everyone and everything - except themselves.
Only GOD can be allowed to heal the sick, and people are sick because they have sinned in the eyes of the Lord.
That is thier mindset, and that is why christianity in its current form is the biggest man-made curse that has that MAN has ever inflicted upon himself.

old comment by Dawn

I was interested in the post and the comments. Personally, my kids both have had the HPV vaccine, but it was their decision to do so. They read the literature, asked questions, and made the decision. However, they were both older than 12 (17 and 19; yes, I had to sign the consent for the 17 year old). That being said, I don't think the HPV vaccine should be mandatory.

What I can't understand is this woman refusing the meningitis vaccine for her child. Meningitis is a KILLER! Even with antibiotics, it often kills. Because the symptoms start out so mild, the child can become deathly ill before anyone knows what happened, and it is spread very easily. I had NO problems with my kids getting this vaccine and can't believe this OP's doctor did not recommend the meningitis one.

old comment by Brain_In_A_Jar

I don't get why people don't want immunisations, I really don't.

In recent times it's usually been a combination of the mass media cherry picking bad science, and sufficient ignorance of genuine, peer-reviewed scientific literature and how to spot bad science amongst their audience as to give them a general sense of uncertainty that reaches critical mass and causes widespread hysteria.

There've been quite a few moral panics about various vaccines leading to hysterical gestures of resistance fairly recently, each typically limited to only one country and perhaps a few of its neighbours. Here in the UK, it was a hypothesised link between the MMR vaccine and autism that was siezed upon by the media and positively trampled underfoot before it had even had time to be tested or peer-reviewed. I gather the current scientific consensus, based on solid research, is that there's no connection whatsoever.

Normally, I'd support the right of any idiot to cling to irrational beliefs in their own private lives, since that wouldn't affect me or society as a whole, but unfortunately the anti-vaccination phobia does do that by damaging our herd immunity.

old comment by FMG

I am sorry, HPV may not scare you. (Its also stopped by Condoms to correct a previous poster) Its not a "scary" virus. Its actual infection rate is quite low. Its a common virus and we actually know it as the virus that causes warts and verrucas. Honestly speaking its worth the shot

BUT get your priorities straight. Chickenpox is a week or two of debilitating sores and itching.

Meningitis is if you are lucky a painful month in hospital.
If you are unlucky its death.
If you are really REALLY unlucky its brain damage. It is a "terrifyingly tragic" disease because its so fast.

As for the MMR - The thing is even if there is a 1 in 1000 chance of autism, the three diseases of Measles Mumps and Rubella would have butchered their way across a sizeable number of people in comparison. I have an uncle who died at the age of 4 from Measles. My mom underwent voluntary sterilisation due to Rubella (causes birth defects). These are horrible diseases.

Its just that we are so used to seeing "healthy" people we fail to realise what the scourge of sickness is like. If a simple few mg of fluid can fight the disease it can't be all that bad!

old comment by Sisyphus

@FMG: "BUT get your priorities straight. Chickenpox is a week or two of debilitating sores and itching"

Actually, depending on the age of the child, it can cause genetic mutations and lead to other illnesses. I got chicken pox when I was about 18 months and it activated a previously inactive gene which caused an auto immune disorder and led to my having juvenile diabetes. Also, in the very young, it can kill a child. But, I do concede that in 99% of cases it's just a minor annoyance.

I think that the parent was right to ask about what the vaccines were. And I think the nurse should have told her up front rather than just assuming. Personally, in a child of that age, I would not get the HPV shot. I would wait until my child was older. The meningitis shot I would be all over like a dirty shirt!

old comment by Someone Awful

3700 deaths per year to cervical cancer in a female population of 190 million. The percentage is 1.9 X 10 to the -6th power. Il n'ya pas d'infection ici. It's NOT murderous to forego that particular vaccine. Not to mention, I guess all parents who existed before the vaccine were murderers (of an infinitesimal number of people).

The MMR should be given separately, and not to tiny infants as is done now. They delay vaccines in Japan, and we ought to take their lesson. SIDS goes away, though the outbreak of contagious diseases at age 2, when they start the vaccines, skyrockets.

Mass vaccination is an experiment, and to make every new vaccine that comes down the pike mandatory is beyond ridiculous.

old comment by

Do your own damn research and then decide. My children have had only the tetanus vaccine, because after extensive research on both sides of the issue, that was the only one that it seemed to me where the benefits outweighed the risk. The fact that our government maintains a fund to compensate children for vaccine-caused damages speaks volumes to me.

And you can take your "herd immunity" and shove it up your ass. I'm not risking my children's health for your "herd."

I am insulted by the comments that claim that vaccine refusers are stupid, or uninformed, or don't care about their children's health. Most of them are intelligent, thoughtful people who have done the research and made the choice that seems right for their family. The people who swallow the government propaganda without looking carefully at both sides of the issue are the stupid ones.

And no, I'm not a fundy or any kind of Christian.

old comment by Brain_In_A_Jar

@ #743145

I don't accuse vaccine refusers of being uncaring towards their children; how the hell could I when concern for their children is the obvious motivation behind their actions?

I'm unable to find the government fund of which you write - does it have a name? Which country are you referring to?

As for your dismissive remark about herd immunity, did you actually bother to look up the concept? Did you know that the main reason your unimmunised children are not at very significant risk from the hideous effects of, say, meningitis, is because most other people do vaccinate their children? Your argument seems to imply that you believe the risk of your children being harmed by a vaccination is, today, greater than the risk of them catching and being harmed by the disease it prevents, but this is only true because mass vaccination has passed the herd immunity barrier and caused a vast reduction in the ability of the disease to spread through a population. If everybody took your stance, herd immunity would cease and suddenly the risk of the disease would again massively exceed the risks of the vaccine. Are you content, then, to refuse to take a mild risk when everyone else taking that same mild risk is the only reason it isn't a far more serious one?

old comment by random6x7

Okay, so, you can still get cervical cancer if you get the vaccine. Fine. But your risk does go down. It's surprising to me that, in a society where we're regularly told to take this vitamin or eat this fruit for health benefits that are unproven, so many people would be against a vaccine that does actually reduce your risk of cancer. Question it, yes, please, do. But saying that you can still get cervical cancer makes it useless is like saying that you can still get cavities if you brush your teeth, so we should all stop that.

The only thing that's worse is raising the specter of people having more unprotected sex. Bull. There's still AIDS and pregnancy out there to scare everyone. Besides, I consider myself a reasonably aware young woman, who has at least a passing acquaintance with STDs (thank you, decent sex ed), but HPV was barely on my radar before the vaccine came out. I promise you, the vaccine will not make smart people make stupid decisions, just as it won't make stupid people make smart ones. People are people, and this vaccine is one way to help protect them.

critty #fundie prophecyfellowship.org

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