Observer #fundie

Observer #fundie fstdt.com

Evolutionists wont be content utill every school student is forced to renounce God in biology class before learning about evolution. Heaven forbid anyone have a differing opinion on the issue. Im not saying teach creation eather, but public schools tend to teach evolution from a specific anti-religious slant. I was luck my professor tought it in a neutral objective way. Ive known others though that teach it with the intent of disproving God to their students.

80 comments

old comment by dionysus

Evolutionists wont be content utill every school student is forced to renounce God in biology class before learning about evolution.

Really? Because most acceptors of evolution (evolutionist is an outdated and improper term) don't care what your personal beliefs are so long as they don't cause you to campaign against modern science.

Heaven forbid anyone have a differing opinion on the issue.

1) Opinion is worth exactly jack shit in science.
2) Outside of science very few people care if you want to have a differing opinion so long as you don't try to force it on them.

Im not saying teach creation eather, but public schools tend to teach evolution from a specific anti-religious slant.

If they are then they're doing it wrong because evolution is about descent with modification and population genetics. It has absolutely nothing to do with the existence of gods.

I was luck my professor tought it in a neutral objective way. Ive known others though that teach it with the intent of disproving God to their students.

Then those professors are doing it wrong. Again, evolution is descent with modification and population genetics. It can't disprove the existence of gods. The best it can do is disprove certain religious claims such as a literal interpretation of Genesis, but it's not ToE's fault that a literal interpretation of Genesis contradicts observed reality.

old comment by pretty puppy

No, I won't be happy until teachers at the high school and yes, even college, level no longer have to preface biology classes by letting students know that evolution will be used as the basis. I am sorry, but high school and college students should expect to be studying science in a science class and should be secure enough to at least understand the basics of how theories counter to their religious beliefs work. It disgusts me that teachers and professors have to make such an announcement. And then people like you cry oppression, you aren't oppressed, for goodness sake you make it so teachers have to practically apologize for teaching science.

old comment by pretty puppy

I'm sorry but what is with people giving this person credit.
People like the commenter spread the belief that teachers are anti-religious solely because they teach science and history. They spread a myth that classrooms are full of teachers trying to disprove god, and no, I don't believe that. I do not think it is at all rational to go around sounding the alarm that teachers are trying to actively disprove the religious beliefs of a certain sect of students. As I said above, in both my high school biology class and college biological anthropology the teachers felt it necessary to
"warn" students that they would be introduced to a theory that was not in line with Genesis and that they didn't have to accept it just understand it, hardly a situation in which teachers are actively trying to disprove god. No, it is called teaching science and unfortunately teachers have to inform people that science while they do not have to accept science, just understand the theories, it may run counter to their religious beliefs.

old comment by Godbuster

Fucking United States is seriously a whiny country full of bitchy little children. So the fucking school teacher tells you god's fake but you just HAVE to go crying to your mommy because your parents COULD NEVER BE WRONG !!!?!?

America, serious-fucking-ly, whatever happened to sticks and stones. This country needs to fail hard so that these whiny buttcracks of human beings lose all their comfort and are forced to face reality without the comfort of their matrix-esque suburbs to hide in.

THEN you'll realize that you should've paid attention in school, that there might be a reason they were teaching you science, that no matter how hard and long and desperately you pray, your fucking leg won't fucking grow back and that the fucking oblivious moron you think is the only person telling you the truth is abusing your gullibility to make stupid amounts of untaxed money that doesn't help the country you so naively believe to be fucking paradise on earth BECAUSE your retarded organized superstition enjoys a tax-exempt status.

AND the best part is...

you wouldn't want it any other way.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"Evolutionists wont be content utill every school student is forced to renounce God in biology class"

Every school that can claim to be an accredited, and thus legal here in the UK, has to abide by the National Curriculum. As in the law. And that means 'Creationism' can only be mentioned as part of Religious Education/Comparative Religion classes. Thus it can only be stated that it's part of religious 'belief', and isn't fact. Thus it's regarded (certainly as far as educational regulations, i.e. the law), only a 'philosophical concept'. Because 'Creationism' has no hard, solid evidence to back up what it claims. Evolution and the Big Bang is taught in biology/physics/science classes as a whole as fact. Because there is evidence to prove it.

Here in the UK, education is based, first and foremost, on thinking for yourself. Everything else follows from that.

Similarly in mainstream educational systems in the US too. Especially so since Kitzmiller vs. Dover in 2005. As a result, teaching 'Intelligent Design' (a.k.a. Creationism by Stealth) is illegal in all US educational establishments. Oh, of course fundies can teach their kids outside of such, by the method of 'hoemskuling', but that method is biased in favour of the parent(s) doing so, based on their personal - and subjective - mindset. No objectivity, and thus no self-thinking allowed.

Now who's forcing whom?

Still, McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, Pizza Hut et al need all the counter staff they can get eh, Observer?! Meanwhile, all those pointless & irrelevant doctor, dentist, surgeon, lawyer, computer technician/programmer, engineer, physicist/biologist, teacher/lecturer/professor et al positions will be filled by those who graduated from college/university.

And who can think for themselves. No 'forcing' required.

...and no, I don't want fries with that, Mr... (*looks at name badge*)

...Observer.

Oh, and something else, whilst it's legal to 'homeschool' (as is private tuition) here in the UK, even this is subject to the National Curriculum. Thus purely subjective religion-based teaching is illegal.

Oh, and re. my question here:

http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=71583&Page=3

Why do you hate Freedom, Observer?

old comment by Observer

@ Anon-E-Moose

I could care less what a bunch of whiny anti-religious people say about me. i find it amusing though that so much time is spent whining about stuff other people say when it accomplishes nothing.

And for the record, by quote was meant to say that school should be NEUTRAl, not surprisingly, most people here ignored the part where i said creaton shouldnt be tought either. My main point was that it is seldomly neutral in school; being a biology teacher or a hard scientist almost requires you to be an atheist, as such most teachers have an agenda they pursue in class. i know that from experience. And let me tell you, its usually not netral and its definitely not kind to religion. But thats okay right? because religion is evil and deserves to be mocked in a public setting. If evolution is to be tought it should be done so without an anti-religious slant, and i dont mean simply teching religion, i mean professors/teachers drawing conclusions about God not being existant based on evolution and passing it off as Fact to students.

@ John the Atheist; you know with your hatred of religion, why not go to China or some place where religion is outlawed, youd be much happier there; a place where atheism is forced on others sound like paradise for most of the people here.

old comment by GigaGuess

Evolutionists wont be content utill every school student is forced to renounce God in biology class before learning about evolution.
We make no such assertion. You are the ones who screech that you cannot believe in God and evolution.

Heaven forbid anyone have a differing opinion on the issue.
Oh, disagree away. But be prepared for debate. You can't challenge accepted fact, and expect those you challenge to just shrug, and bend to your whims.

Im not saying teach creation eather, but public schools tend to teach evolution from a specific anti-religious slant.
And how is that? Again, while I won't say there aren't some that teach froma fundie atheist viewpoint, there are several who teach from a fundie Christian viewpoint, making themselves out to be martyrs of the system. Generally, though, it balances out to teachers who teach from the curriculum, and leave Sunday School to the church.

I was luck my professor tought it in a neutral objective way.
And so have I. And so have most I know.

Ive known others though that teach it with the intent of disproving God to their students.
And they're no better than their Christian fundie counterparts. Now how does this equate to "Scientists are trying to persecute us, and force us to forsake our beliefs." If you truly believe, nothing they say will make a difference, now, will it?

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Norman

I wouldn't presume to 'bash' you, but Observer deserves to be. When your 'opinion' is more a wish to deny other people their rights (in this case two lesbians wanting to attend a Prom Night, wearing what they like):

http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=71583&Page=3

Then it becomes bigotry. And once their 'opinions' are based on such, it's open season on such people. And they deserve all the verbal bashing (and being called out on their bigotry bullshit) they get.

Can't take it? Then don't dish it out in the first place.

Just as if fundies can't take being called out on their fundy 'Creationist' bullshit (which they call 'Persecution') that they can't prove empirically, then they have two alternatives:

1- Keep said bullshit to themselves, until they can prove it scientifically (and to the satisfaction of we Atheists).

2- Get with the program called Reality: Become Atheists.

After all, ask yourself this question: Why are the likes of the Unitarian Universalists and Quakers never quoted here on FSTDT?

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Observer (and Norman to a certain extent)

This is what happens when certain people are allowed to have 'opinions':

"I have to admit that when I see Oprah or BHO or his wife I see evil.
I can't really help it, I guess it's how I feel about any of the 3, like a evil triangle.
This is only my humble opinion."

-Sandy1950 (a quote from Rapture Ready):

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=71731

They become excuses for thinly veiled bigotry. Think about that Observer, next time you see two people (certainly students) enjoying themselves as & how they wish. They have every right to, in a free and democratic country. So what if they're lesbians?

old comment by Observer

@ Anon-e-moose

Since when do religious people have to do jack shit to please you condescenting hypocritical atheists? Dont expect that to happen anytime soon.

I find it hilarious that you attack christians for not accepting others with different lifestyles or belief systems, yet do the exact same thing about creationism...yeah hypocracy only applies to people who disagree with you i suppose.

And for the record; im NOT a creationist. I belive god created the universe, but Genesis is not to be taken literally. Besides what the FK does that prom thing have to do with my point of keeping classes neutral, and i mean really neutral, not neutral in the way that god is actively denounced, not just learning about evolution.

You want us to become atheist? Have a revolution and outlaw religion, just like North Korea, and China. Its obvious you and others here feel morally justified to outlaw religion while preaching tolerance of others (but not those you disagree with)

You make me laugh so hard with your hypocracy.

@Norman

The people here are anti-religious. Tolerance to them aplies to every one except the religious, who dont deserve it because they dont agree with the religious.

old comment by Observer

@Dr. Shrinker

First off that has nothing to do with this thread; secondly, i RESENT dont hate; theres a big difference there. i actually also have a reason to be resentful, you may notthink its rational, and even i may not, but its not a blind unfounded resentment. Third, you're just avoiding the point i made on the post above you, about FSTDT.

Forth Im not a Saint. Most normal people cant bless the ones that hate them, it goes against human nature.

Meanwhile back on the subject...to deny that some professors and teachers do not have an agenda when teaching evolution would be very naive. My point was if your going to keep religious issues out of the class room, as they should, so should blatant atheism and anti-religious bashing. Only the scientific aspects of evolution should be tought. Students should be allowed to come to their own conclusions, based on the evidence, and be allowed to accept o reject it personally. Note i m not saying they shouldnt be tested on it. Im just saying they shouldnt be "encouraged" to abandon their faith because some professor or teacher has a personal bias

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Observer

"Tolerance to them aplies to every one except the religious, who dont deserve it because they dont agree with the religious"

'No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.'

-George H.W. Bush

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

-Mahatma Gandhi

image

Tolerance is a two way door, Observer. If right-wing Fundamentalist Christians don't tolerate anyone not a True Christian like them in any way, shape or form - especially with the way they force their way of thinking, politics & morals (via the GOP) on people who don't want such, should they expect any in return?

Your call.

old comment by Observer

@ anon-e-moose

Yes they should expect tolerance.Unless they seek to commit genocide then they are entitled to tolerance. You just proved my point BTW; that religious people don't deserve tolerance according to atheists like you because their faith considers some things others dont to be wrong. Christianity, just like Most other Western religions calls for believers to influcence the countries they live in, by voting in ways that support their religious teachings as best as possible. Its a duty, otherwise said person is religious in name only. Islam does it, many Christin denominations do it, and Judaism does. Its part of doctrine. In Islam it goes to the extreme of Theocracy; in the states, it just means voting for poliicians who support tradditional values over hedonism and moral relativity; theres no SERIOUS push to get some state sponsored christian style Sharia law passed.

You dont like it? Vote against them, simple as that. Elect presidents who will apoint atheist judges, get people to stop voting for social conservatives. No one is forcing anything on you. On the contrary you atheists are trying to force the word God to be a dirty word that shouldnt be uttered anywhere outside of Church or house. And im sorry to tell you that, the Constitution does not see it that way.

This is off topic, Anon-e-moose, you can PM me if you want to further your arguments, other wise ive made clear what i meant by the original quote.

old comment by Professor M

Wow, Observer has wonderful psychic powers -- he knows all about my background and opinions WRT ethics!

Might want to brush up on your accuracy a bit, though. Ethics based on recognizing the existence of sentient entities other than oneself and considering the concrete consequences of one's actions on those other sentient entities starts to look downright absolutist compared to "morality is whatever my sect says that our god says it is". The former can be discussed, debated, etc. in a group of people who don't all share the same theology, as it actually bases positions on observed phenomena in the real world; the later just ends up with people making grand pronouncements, slinging slander (your favorite!), etc.

Observer #fundie fstdt.com

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