[Octopi]
if they're that smart, people shouldn't eat them.
Same rule as applies to apes & monkeys, dolphins & whales, and more recently, crows. Eating highly intelligent animals is equivalent to cannibalism. There are plenty of other things to eat that aren't so smart.
42 comments
Eating highly intelligent animals is equivalent to cannibalism.
1. Cannibalism applies only to eating other members of humanity , not to eating animals.
2. The fact they might be intelligent plays no role. Your objection would be valid only if you were talking about sentient, self-aware beings.
While the word cannibalism certainly doesn't apply, I get the sentiment here, after seeing a horrific HBO documentary years ago (forget the name) about animal cruelty in restaurants in China that serve cats and dogs, which showed the animals watching with obvious awareness of what was happening to their bretheren and huddling together, terrified, in the back of the cage.
Having said that, a less intelligent animal still feels pain, knows when it's in danger, and fights to survive, so by this logic there's really no animal that "should" be eaten. It's heartbreaking, but it's a fact of life (done humanely), and what your body was programmed to do. Welcome to the food chain.
Kinda realitive, Octopi may be smart but we can relate to Chipmunks more so in some cases it about that, cultural tradition and inherent cuteness.
I don't know how many times I've had to eat venison to prove I don't have some sort of Bambi complex, something deer hunters have convinced themselves is the reason many people don't like venison, because we're all eight year old girls or something. I don't like it because I don't like the flavor, I don't like chicken gizzards either but I love chicken meat.
"There are plenty of other things to eat that aren't so smart."
I don't see a problem with restricting ones self to the dumber animals except that might actually encourage cannibalism.
I see nothing wrong with using the phrase, "equivalent to cannibalism," when there is no "ism" to describe the act of eating smart(er) animals. I know people that won't eat pork because a pig is as smart as a dog, and they wouldn't consider eating a dog, having known a few. This is kind of why farmers teach their children not to give livestock names.
@anothga: Lack of communication skills does not disprove self-awareness, just as humans' denial of instinctive behavior does not prove we don't have any.
Food that talks is not food. He's drawing the standard a bit farther back, but still.
Come back when G2geek posts about bombing seafood restaurants.
@Canandist
I share a similar view of venison, though the big problem is in part because its prepared wrong. Venison is a difficult meat to cook, for the most part because its essentially wild, very poorly marbled beef. Beef cows are raised specifically to produce good meat, deer aren't.
Thus venison has to be prepared by adding fat to it and in dishes that work with the gamey notes. I'd pair it with a lighter red wine to have a counter taste that won't add some many big tastes to the meal. Also be aware it has a higher moisture content and will be better for stews than steaks.
I guess it comes down to the question of, what exactly is sentience? How far down the intelligence scale is that cutoff? I'm erring on the side of caution, but I think it would be safe to say that major meat producers are not even close (cows, chickens, sheep, fish).
@ Goomy pls
... none of those animals are commonly eaten anyway.
If conservative christians were honest, crow would be a mainstay of their diet. ;-)
Okay, first, cannibalism means "eating members of the same species". None of them are humans, ergo it ain't cannibalism. Period.
Secondly, if it's only okay to eat less-intelligent beings, then you should worry about your life, genius.
Besides, don't you know the social stigma in most cultures to eating apes, monkeys, dogs, etc...?
Don't see how this is particularly fundie. Aside from a poor comparison, I agree with the sentiment. The smarter a species of animal, the more squeamish I get about eating it. Even then, an animal's intelligence might not necessarily be correlated with its capacity for suffering, so I feel like I should revise my standards. I'd become a vegetarian, except it's not the most practical for me right now if I don't want to sacrifice good nutrition. I'm with nazani14 though, lab-grown muscle tissue can't come fast enough.
But yet, (non-human) apes, monkeys, dolphins, whales, crows, and octopus are still an order of magnitude less intelligent than humans, because none of them are sentient.
I'll stop eating octopus when an octopus tells me not to eat it. And no parlor tricks either, I want to see an octopus at an aquarium or something spontaneously tell me to stop eating octopus without having been trained to do so. I don't buy into gorilla or chimpanzee language as a sign of their intelligence, either, but I'd be cautious about eating those meats because that's how AIDS and ebola spread, apparently.
There are plenty of other things to eat that aren't so smart.
Yeah, but octopus is REALLY FUCKING GOOD if you prepare it right. It's a very underrated source of meat. Cutting something like that out of my diet for no reason other than "but they're smarter than other animals!" is no more rational or logical than Muslims and Jews not eating pork, or really nonsensical religious prohibitions and taboos in general. The only thing that should really matter if its good to eat or not is if its healthy for you or not, and by that it won't give you AIDS or something. I guess I'll add in "sustainability" too, if only because it wouldn't be fair for future generations if they can't eat it as well. Other than that, everything should be on the menu for those willing to eat it. Yes, that includes cats and dogs too, each of which I'd love to try at least once in my life. I also wouldn't mind trying bushmeat, aside from the ebola/AIDS concern. But I suppose I'll have to wait until we can grow chimpanzee meat in the lab or something for that.
Stupid argument, but I don't think it's fundy.
Now then, the plural of octopus is octopuses. Octopi makes no sense whatsoever, given the ethymology of the word (I know, it's used so often some dictionaries started liting it as acceptable; it's still wrong).
Cannibalism is a stretch, but I think animals are proving a lot more self-aware than we ever thought. Now that we know more about them, and recognize they feel pain and a drive to survive, I agree with the sentiment that the smarter ones should be off-limits.
If we weren't meant to eat it, then it would be poisonous, or toxic. Other than that, everything is on the table. I don't give two shits how smart it is.
I've seen this argument before. That is, animals shouldn't be killed or held in captivity if they exhibit higher levels of intelligence. It doesn't exactly make perfect sense, but there is a rational element to it even if they're being largely empathetic. We look for intelligence as we define it and we like to believe the animals that are typically used for food aren't intelligent and so their lives and what they experience aren't exactly worth considering. They aren't like us, so they aren't actually capable of awareness or complex cognitive processes. But pigs should definitely also make this list, in any case.
This reminds of the Futurama episode where they eat a dolphin who blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.
(Yog-sothoth)
That doesn't necessarily stop humans from finding it delicious anyway. *coughFUGUcough*
@NotaReptile
That is the kinda weird thing about many venison pushers, they'll say it taste just like beef which has also led me to believe some folk don't have very receptive taste buds, because it doesn't. (However moose can pass for beef pretty closely) They once buried it in a "beef" stew thinking I wouldn't notice, after a few spoonfuls they asked what I thought and I said "it tastes off honestly", Then they told me it was Venison and I ate the rest (I can eat venison, I just SOOO much prefer beef) and told them to quit playing these games.
I've heard the "no one really knows how to cook it right" theory too but if Venison is so damn tasty it really shouldn't need too much help. Either you like that gamey aspect or you don't. Now Rhubarb, that's something no one seems to know how to prepare!
And Octopus, I'm pretty sure theirs a few Japanese dishes where they can make it a tasty part but I've had some of it steamed and souped and greek pickling of the species and I Don't Like It at all Sam.
@Yog-sothoth
"If we weren't meant to eat it, then it would be poisonous, or toxic."
Indeed:
image
...just ask Cthulhi Luhy Jistone. Especially about what's in her Takoyaki.
'Iä! Iä!'
Nyaruko once made dinner for Mahiro: containing genuine Shub-Niggurath meat !
@TimeToTurn: "sentient", in the strict sense, means capable of sensing the world around you. all the things you listed are sentient, but that's not saying much, because so are many plants.
yeah, yeah, i know you meant to say "sapient". i also know that "sentient" gets misused in place of "sapient" more often than not, even though i can't think of a good reason why. still, if you're going to make this sort of argument, it's proper form to prove yourself sapient enough to know the difference and use the correct word.
I get that vegans can be fundies, but this guy really isn't one. Were I of stronger moral fiber (or bacon weren't so tasty) I'd probably cut pork from my diet. As it is, I try to buy meat that was treated well and killed humanely and eat a higher percentage of fish (as far as I'm concerned mussels should be considered vegetarian), but if they ever do figure out how to make meat in a petri dish, I'll be happy to make the switch.
I'm not sure how far on the scale of intelligence octopuses fall to decide if I feel guilty for eating them.
If we're going to abuse the writer for saying that eating intelligent animals is equivalent to cannibalism. We would probably not continuously abuse the word sentient. Also honestly there is some decent evidence that some of the higher order mammals are indeed sapient (that's the word you're looking for not sentient)
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