The word of God has been in heaven forever. The KJV has always been there. The so called Hebrew words like Alleluia are English words. The English did not borrow them from the Hebrew but rather the Hebrew borrowed them from the English. If the KJV has always been there and is the original word of God then there is no other conclusion. The same can be said for any so called Greek words that were borrowed from the Greek or transliterated. It is a matter of what bias you approach this particular subject.
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Amazing how these people will absolutely ignore history (as well as science, reason, and rationale, but I digress) in order to believe their fairy tales to be true. This is just absolute unmitigated bullshit.
"The word of God has been in heaven forever."Prove it. And while you're at it, prove that God exists and that ANY version of the Bible is his word.
"The KJV has always been there."
Prove it.
"The so called Hebrew words like Alleluia are English words."
They have been assimilated into English, but their roots are in Hebrew.
"The English did not borrow them from the Hebrew but rather the Hebrew borrowed them from the English."
Yeah, in your special, make-up-a-history-you-like world.
"If the KJV has always been there and is the original word of God then there is no other conclusion."
Indeed if both of your outrageous claims are true, then both of your outrageous claims would be true.
"The same can be said for any so called Greek words that were borrowed from the Greek or transliterated."
No, for the same reasons stated above.
"It is a matter of what bias you approach this particular subject."
Absolutely. If you have a bias toward the truth, you realize that Donkeys is an idiot, however, if you are biased toward believing proveably false assertions, Donkeys is a genius.
This brand of fundamentalism is what has caused so many conflicts throughout human history: "God looks like me, talks like me, believes what I believe, and hates whom I hate."
The English did not borrow them from the Hebrew but rather the Hebrew borrowed them from the English.
Somebody please tell me that this is a parody. No one can really be that stupid, can they?
Outside of FSTDT, I have never heard this nonsense about the KJV not only being preferred over the original manuscripts, but actually claiming to PRECEDE the original manuscripts. It just completely boggles the mind.Wikipedia page on the subject has one quote, from an historian of this topic on the issue:
There are even those that claim, as White says on p. 6:
"that the KJV was written in eternity, and that Abraham and Moses and the prophets all read the 1611 KJV, including the New Testament. These individuals believe that Hebrew is actually English... Such groups are, for obvious reasons, very small."
You'd think so, but they seem to be fairly well represented on the internet.
Yeah, it certainly does seem to be a matter of bias. Sorry, guy, but no matter how much you want something to be so, wishful thinking doesn't cut it. The 1600's might seem to be a long time ago to you, but as history goes it really wasn't that long ago. And English isn't the only valid language on the planet. Just because it's the one you happen to speak, that doesn't make it special.
Way to demonstrate that you worship the King James bibble. Forget that Gawd fellow, he's a loser, he let his special favorite people write down stories about him in the wrong language. Why didn't he just teach them Gawd-approved KJV English to begin with?
"About as sharp as a sack of wet mice" - Foghorn Leghorn
The KJV isn't even the original English translation. Most of it was copied from guys like William Tyndale (who was burned at the stake for it), Coverdale and Erasmus. In many cases, phrases were copied verbatum from these earlier versions. Much of the KJV NT comes from Tyndale word for word.after Jesus' death:
Soþlice on þam dagum wæs geworden gebod fram þam casere augusto. þæt eall ymbehwyrft wære tomearcod; þeos tomearcodnes wæs æryst geworden fram þam deman syrige cirino. and ealle hig eodon. and syndrie ferdon on hyra ceastre;
The same passage from the KJV: "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus,..."
"Alleluia" comes from Latin. See here and here .
I'm new to all this; this is the first time I've posted here.
The rest of that thread is mind-numbing! I can't believe people actually spend their time debating that!
Don's brain locked itself in a little room, and threw away Don's key...
@Berny
You forgot the one about King James was gay!
He was?
Hensley then:
*looks for corroborating evidence
*finds it
*laughs his ass off at though of a fundie being presented with this fact
Wow. The only thing that one could, realistically, say to this ignoramus is, "Dude, 'King James Version'" See? King - meaning the leader of a monarchy, James - specifying the particular leader in question who is mentioned in history and lived at a specific time, version - an interpretation of a matter from a particular viewpoint. Seriously!
Amazing how these people will absolutely ignore history (as well as science, reason, and rationale, but I digress) in order to believe their fairy tales to be true. This is just absolute unmitigated bullshit. QED
Excuse me sir, but I think that your abject lack of logic would make even some of the other people featured on FSTDT balk, and that, my friend, is saying something.
So what language did they speak in Babylon?
God destroyed the tower so the Babylonians couldn't reach heaven.
What's he got, and all you can eat Chinese buffet up there he's trying to protect?
well from the fundie point of ABSOLUTELY TRUE. GOd is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, (and other omni-things). So the bible cou;d have been eternal until they wrote KJV - and he even made allowances for all the errors that crept in. The hebrew and greek words were given by god to these nations just so the KJV would have them available.
Once you get past the first step everything else can be logically argues. Unfortunately the first step is a doozy
I totally agree with this. With the exception of the whole Hebrew language has been around for thousands of years and the English language is approximately 1500 years old facts part that he left out of his argument entirely. And Greek people borrowing from the Greek language (??!!).
After spending decades studying Greek philosophers such as Testicles, Hercules, Bendyknees and Hitler, I can safely attest that transliterating their works makes the bible seem so much more credible.
On a more serious note, I do agree that he approached the subject with a bias!
I'm sorry, but are you even able to read the bible, or anything else?or feed yourself? hold up your fingers in front of you.how many?when you have the answer (Get an adult to help if you like), there is your IQ. Dear oh dear oh dear...
English is the language used by French speaking Norman soldiers to pick up German speaking Saxon bargirls. A thousand years ago, it didn't exist in any way, shape, or form.
So the KJV has always been there... implies that King James has always been there... so if God created everything, he must have always been there... hence King James can't have been created by God (having always been there)... Therefore King James must be God?
Sure, Hebrew and Greek "borrowed" from English... Hmmm, lemme think now, how old is England as a country? ... ... ...
In the beginning God spaketh: "Cor, fuckin 'ell, these 'oomans of got right out of 'and, goin raaaahnd bummin each uvvah!"
so the dead sea scrolls are a hoax? so Jesus and the apostles didnt actually witness in midle east, but instead england? hebrew is about 1000 years older than english, and FYI, english is a conglomerate of about 5 or 6 languages. why? because of previous invasions, and empiracal occupation. btw, the KJV is named after King James, who ruled LONG after Jesus came and went.
"It is a matter of what bias you approach this particular subject."
Yeah, chronological. don't you know cancer causes smoking, and heart disease causes obesity?
@OMFGOn a more serious note, I do agree that he approached the subject with a bias!
Surely you jest!
Why do these people pound so hard on the literal value of "Theory" but can never wrap their heads around the word "Version?"
No, Hebrew is the language of the original scrolls.
If the KJV has always been there and is the original word of God then there is no other conclusion.
"The English did not borrow them from the Hebrew but rather the Hebrew borrowed them from the English."
yeah, the same way Einstein stole my ideas.
As a bit of an amateur etymologist (sad, I know, but I think its fascinating), this statement is actually offensive to me in its lack of even a basic understanding of history.
See, I just want to walk over to the King James Version zealots and tell them, "You do know King James was a gay Catholic, right? Right?"
Gaarh! The KJV is from 1611 A.D. you fundietard! Jesus (supposedly) came to earth in the days of the Roman Empire, 2000 friggin' years ago! The KJV was translated from Greek and Hebrew manuscripts from Jesus' time! Arrgh... these people make me want to hurl! Were you homeschooled Donskey? Is your mother as thick as fuck or did you just not listen?
Clearly, the Greeks and the Hebrews combined forces to build a Chronosphere, which they used to travel forward in time, stealing words from the legendary English language.
Learn your history people.....
I am pretty sure Hebrew was around long before English...In fact, a lot of the old testament was WRITTEN in Hebrew, and later translated into english....I mean the Jewish slaves in Egypt spoke Hebrew...and that was about 3000-5000 years ago. Greek has also been around a lot longer. I cannot believe how some people, if it is printed on their eyes, cannot accept something that differs from their beliefs.
Cool! I didn't know everyone knew English back then! Even though they thought the people who lived on the isles to be barbarians and thus didn't want to know English! Does this mean that the Torah in English too? If it is, then it's no English I've ever seen.
Didn't know King James was alive back then, either. WOW! I learn something new everyday!
*Everything I just said was in a sarcastic tone*
The KJV has always been there? I challenge you to find ONE KJV earlier than the year 1600. They DONT EXIST.
Actually, the KJV was not even a translation, but an editing of already existing translations to English (a language not in existance at the time of Christ, much less the old testament ...)
DIAF fucktard :)
This one never fails to make me smile at the sheer stupidity a human can convince themselves of when trying to support the unsupportable.
Dumb as mud, but less useful.
A Phoenician word adopted by the Hebrews.
Michael - translating ancient texts and symbols since 1951.
As any fule kno, king James was around from the beginning, and is immortal. In fact, he was the one who cut off John the Baptist's head because, after all, there can be only one.
If the KJV is so inspired of God, then why does it contain translation errors?
For example, in one place a word referring to flying creatures in general was replaced with "fowl". The result? The KJV says that bats are birds.
I prefer a reality bias, thank you very much.
The KJV isn't even five hundred years old, stupid. The Torah is over two thousand years old.
"The word of God has been in heaven forever. The KJV has always been there."
So why doesn't the Bible claim to have been the first object in space before Sputnik-1 in 1957, then?! [/hyper-smartarse]
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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