I see hell as completely necessary, but not out of some desire to see those I disagree with suffer for eternity. No, hell is necessary for the existence of free will. What kind of god would force a soul that wanted nothing to do with him to exist in his presence for all eternity? That would most certainly be wrong.
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Because not having them in his presence is exactly the same as torturing them for all of eternity.
If he wanted to be fair, he'd just make them go away and not exist any longer.
But it wouldn't be wrong to make them suffer in, as it were, "eternal hell"?
I'd rather be in hell than in heaven with the evil God I was raised learning about, quite honestly.
What kind of god would force a soul that had never heard of him, couldn't find accounts of him to be credible, or worshiped him but not in exactly the right way to exist in his presence for all eternity?
Now do you see the problem with that argument?
Also, why couldn't God just cause the unsaved to cease to exist? I don't buy the argument that souls necessarily exist into all eternity; do you believe that they necessarily existed from all eternity?
Free Will: the choice between an eternity in the clouds with a bunch of religious fundamentalists and...
It's hell, no matter what Biblegod chooses.
He's doing it ALL THE TIME. Or, conversely, he could give no free will. Either way, it makes no sense.
"What kind of god would force a soul that wanted nothing to do with him to exist in his presence for all eternity?"
So, instead of just annihilating the "soul" that doesn't want to be with him, thus causing them to cease to fucking exist he instead tortures them for eternity?
Sounds like a really "loving" god you have there.
"That would most certainly be wrong."
I'm pretty sure Hell would be worse you moron.
Actually those who don't get into heaven are annihilated not eternally tortured.Hell is a pagan concept used to scare people into converting named after the Norse goddess of the underworld whose name was you guessed it Hel(one l),learn your religion dipshit.
*EDIT*
If you view hell as an eternity of torture then there is something wrong with you.
If it's just separation from your silly god, then there really isn't a problem.
You don't know if heaven, hell, or god even exist. You hope they do, for your own selfish reasons, but you do not know.
Use another worldview, or none whatsoever. That's free will.
@Aethernaut "So, in order not to torture his creation, the Christian god sends them away to be tortured someplace else."
Why does this so remind me of the Bush administration's policy on torture? ;^)
Speaking as an atheist, it's not that I want to have nothing to do with God, it's that I don't think there's the least little tiniest slightest scrap of evidence he exists.
And anyway, why does the desert god condemn those who don't believe to endless torture anyway? He could just snuff them out if he was as merciful as his apologists claim.
Why doesn't God allow people to change their minds after death, then? If the whole thing is about giving us free will, then why does he take that free will away once we've died?
What kind of Good would force a soul that changed its mind a hundred years in to exist in his presence for all eternity - or vice versa?
@EllwyenDarwin: "Actually those who don't get into heaven are annihilated not eternally tortured."
No, according to the bible those unworthy of heaven are cast into eternal torment. The term used may come from the Norse (Greek bibles call it Hades), the concept of endless damnation and torture is completely biblical.
But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'"
I see nazi death camps as completely necessary, but not out of some desire to see those I disagree with be tortured to death. No, the camps are necessary for the existence of free will. What kind of dictator would force a citizen that wanted nothing to do with him to remain a citizen in his country? That would most certainly be wrong.
How is the bible god any different from Hitler?
god: Love me and I will love you; or else I'll let you suffer in eternity.
Seems the same for me. The only difference is that the bad guys are real .
So, where is this "free will" you Christians keep taking about? All you have is a threat of eternal suffering.
Your god is shit!
Yes, but why does it have to be an eternity of torment? Why can't it just be a kind of neutral, not-too-bad place for people to hang out who don't want to worship God?
The fact that Hell is supposed to be a place where people are tortured horribly for eternity kind of negates your argument.
Well... from a Christian viewpoint, he does have a point. Rather than hell being a place of torture, I've heard it described as a place that is completely cut off from God's presence.
So free will is "do as I say or you burn forever"? Niiiiice!
For free will to exist, all that is needed are alternatives, not necessarily Good/Bad. But when you lot describe your vision of heaven and hell, it sounds more like Booring/Entertaining.
As most atheists believe that we have this life to live, we try to make the best of it, filling it with friends and family, with laughter and kindness and love. We do our best to treat others with the same respect and kindness that we ourselves want to be treated with.
You can have your hell and your heaven, we don't need it nor want it.
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
It's in Revelations people!
Actually technically they would exist in his presence for all eternity.
good thing there's no such thing as god, or a hell, or souls, or any of that other superstitious nonsense you dimwitted neanderthals believe in.
If you believe in a loving, or even in merely a just God, then you cannot also believe in Hell, because a loving or just God would not only not create such a place, it would not even allow such a place to exist.
If you believe that there is a God and that that God is good, then there is absolutely no justification for eternal agony as a punishment for finite crimes. You can't have that cake and eat it. Because a benevolent being just wouldn't do something so horrible, and so utterly immoral.
If you believe in a God then either that God is good, and won't allow a Hell to exist because of its benevolence, or that God does allow a Hell to exist and is therefor a sadistic tyrant who'd make Hitler look like Gandhi by comparison. That's the options.
No concept of fairness in your god, eh?
A more sane god would simply put those people to eternal sleep (sort of what happens already).
Or maybe just send them somewhere else, where they are happy and not with god.
If indeed this god had more wisdom then the goat-herders that created him.
But then, God slaughtered millions (especially innocent children) according to the OT, so should we expect nothing less from such a monster?
And you wonder why we don't acknowledge the existence of said monster, nor that such a deity even has the right to be believed? Ergo, Atheism. QED.
"I see hell as completely necessary, but not out of some desire to see those I disagree with suffer for eternity."
- That's just a fringe benefit.
Confused?
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