i had read somewhere that you have a better chance of a tornado running thru a junk yard and when it is finished leaving a brand new rolls royce, than you have of the evolutionists claim that all of this started from a big bang and miraculously came together
is it really that taxing on your brain to believe that there is a Creator?
you have shoes, they bear witness to a shoemaker
but you have a whole universe of some of the most mind numbing entities and you want to say that just popped up???
and you call this type of thinking intelligence?
60 comments
Actually the analogy concerned a 747.
Also I can go and see where my computer is made also, unlike your god.
As has been stated numerous times, how is the creation of an omnipotent, omnipresent overloard any less miraculous than the sudden explosion of a highly condensed cloud of matter?
Next, allow me to bring out the old infinite worlds argument. If we were asking about the likelihood of a tornado making a 747 on ONE planet, it would be next to impossible. However, considering that the universe is so large we might as well consider it infinite, that would mean that there would be an infinite number of tornadoes on an infinite number of worlds, thereby making it significantly more likely that on at least ONE of those occasions it would happen.
Finally. Comparing one thing to something completely unrelated does not make for a useful argument. Demonstration: Oranges taste better than apples because oranges weigh 8 grams more on average.
Let's see if I can make it clearer.
I can identify the manufacturer of my shoes. I can go and visit the factory and watch the process. I can choose to buy or not buy my shoes from this manufacturer without the manufacturer condemning me to eternal punishment.
Same with my computer (which I built, by the way).
Is this difficult to understand?
You're the ones who are saying fully-formed complex life appeared out of nowhere, not us.
A better analogy would be thinking of it like a tornado going through a junkyard and leaving behind a few simple machines such as ramps or pulleys. A piece of wood leaning against something or a rope draped over something may not seem very exciting, but those arrangements provide a more complex function than their initial state of lying on the ground, and it happened completely randomly without any sentient influence.
Ah, but who made the watchmaker who made the watchmaker who made the watchmaker who made the watchmaker....
(Repeat until head explodes)
Whn I grow up, I want to be an applemaker!
I mean, there are apples, so there must be people who make apples, right?
"
This is actually quite true, considering that evolution says absolutely nothing about the big bang.
I've seen a tornado clean up a guy's yard (junk collector, picked everything up and dumped it in one pile)
I've seen a tornado change course to hit one trailer. God hates trailers?
So does a tornado have a mind? Or are these just a couple of coincidences?
Edit:I just realized he'd say that God did these things. Fuck it, you can't win
@ Fanatic-Templar
Yes, and the odds that all the letters in the Bible are exactly what they are is insanely low, too.
The moral of the story?
CHANCE IS NOT A PROPERTY OF AN OBJECT
Besides, I don't ever hear about God introducing a new God with more RAM or a faster hard disk.
EVER. BECAUSE WE ARE EVOLVING YOU DUMBSHIT.
Why dont these people reaize that it was a clergy member that proposed the big bang theory in the first place? (though, he was catholic if i remember correctly, and it realy seems that some people have truely convinced themselves that catholics are not christian).
Heck, the first passages of genesis could be explained as some sort of analogy of the big bang so that early man could understand it.
Ya... except tornadoes are good at destroying things in its path and evolution is good at helping life survive. See where maybe there is a wee bit of difference?
@Adam: Georges Lemaître is the guy you're thinking of.
Actually it is more taxing to think of how life formed without a creator. When you bring in a creator, the answer is just Goddidit
Just because something is complex, doesn't mean that it needs a creator just because its too hard for you to think how it could have formed on its own
Two reasons why that analogy doesn't work...
1) If you have a deck of cards, the chance of drawing any one card is 1/52. Pretty unlikely, yet one card will be picked. Thus, with a 100% certainty something unlikely will happen. Everything did not have to follow a set path for the earth to exist.
2) The chance of rolling 10 dices and getting all sixes is (1/6)^10. But if you just keep re-rolling all non sixes, after an infinite amount of re-rolls you are 100% certain of getting all sixes. The universe was not formed overnight.
And that creator, by your logic, has the brand of whom?. Be careful, because circularity has that problem(and quoting a stupid creationist you don't even know is even worse). Besides, evolution, proposed by a person who was trained to be a preacher, has nothing to do with the Big Bang, which was proposed by a priest.
"you have a computer, which bears witness that there is a Dell or IBM"
OBJECTION!
I use a Mac.
Yeah, nitpicking, but the basic argument's been blown apart, so I'm reduced to this.
No. Evolution is not 'miraculous.' That's what creationism is. Seriously, how can they diss evolution for being 'miraculous' when that's what the creation myth is all about?
I suppose you can point out till the cows come home how well science explains the world and universe we live in. Yet they still remain ignorant and cling to the claim of 'Goddidit!'
Wow! An entirely new argument! I can't believe no one's ever brought this up years and years and years ago before!
Allow me to hit you on the head with my copy of the blind watchmaker until you come up with something original
"i had read somewhere..."
And that must make it true.
"but you have a whole universe "
Exactly. You have a huge (possibly infinite) universe where every single rare event has probably happened at least once.
Rolls Royces, shoes, and computers are unable to reproduce themselves. So they can't evolve like biological life can and does. So your analogy, like the 747 analogy, and ALL stupid analogies like this, doesn't work because it's NOT ANALOGOUS.
You have a computer, which bears witness that there is a Dell or IBM...
I see he doesn't mention the Mac... must be satanic.
a tornado running thru a junk yard and when it is finished leaving a brand new rolls royce,
Imagine; a Rolls! And a brand new one at that. Shit. A tornado went through my redneck backyard and all I got was a Volkswagen. An old, beat to shit one. Up to now I felt OK about it, and was gonna call Ripley or Guinness. Now I feel short changed, if tornados might be handing out the good shit these days. Actually that old VDub might have been hiding under the tall grass all along, but you couldn't prove it by me. Hell, ya gotta have faith, right? Next windy season I'm prayin for a . . . a Cadillac!
The odds of winning the National Lottery in the UK are nearly 14 million to one. If I recall correctly, you have more chance of a plane crashing into your house than you have of winning the lottery.
So, the chances of the numbers 4 10 14 29 31 38 turning up are so impossibly low, they can't happen, right?
Guess what? They came up last week.
i had read somewhere that you have a better chance of a tornado running thru a junk yard and when it is finished leaving a brand new rolls royce, than you have of the evolutionists claim that all of this started from a big bang and miraculously came together
No miracles were involved.
Stupid cunt.
You have a God who creates all this wonderful stuff?
But, ooh, that would stop the first one being God at all, and then the next one up would need a creator, stopping him from being God...
Hey, maybe there's no God?
"is it really that taxing on your brain to believe that there is a Creator? "
no, in fact the most uneducated infant can find it easy to believe in a creator.
I can't even laugh. I was talking to my mom last night, and she used the words 'genetic selection' to prove her point, as in 'Oh, don't you give me that, it's just genetic selection!' I asked her if she was now coming around to the foregone conclusion that Evolution is observable all around us? And so it came to be, that in her very next breath, she dashed all my hopes for her by attempting to debunk the theory of evolution without logic, much less citations or reference to evidence. GODDIDIT?! I cried a little.
"i had read somewhere that you have a better chance of a tornado running thru a junk yard and when it is finished leaving a brand new rolls royce"
"than you have of the evolutionists claim that all of this started from a big bang "
"you have shoes, they bear witness to a shoemaker"
"you have a computer, which bears witness that there is a Dell or IBM"
There's a universe, there must be a universe creator!
Wait...what made the universe creator?
...The universe creator creator?
...but then who made the universe creator creator...
or
It's so random that life appeared here on Earth. I mean, if there was no life here, it couldn't possibly be anywhere else, so it's awesome that it's here.
"is it really that taxing on your brain to believe that there is a Creator?"
No, not at all. It's incredibly easy to believe that "goddidit." And that is the problem. It's intellectual cop-out.
i ahve shit, that meanst theres a shit maker.
I dunno about you guys, but i was always told it was all sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arklesiezure.
If i can believe that virtual particles appear instantaneously between uncharge plates in a vacuum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect , a proven phenomenon), i can believe that a supermassive celestial body, which had been forming for eons, reached a critical mass and exploded.
So the answer to both your last questions is yes.
QED BIATCH
Well, let's see. Sure, I could see there being a very small chance that life was started via DNA formation in the good ol' primordial soup, or matter came to be the way it is post-Big Bang. Guess what, though? It did. From our viewpoint, of course we have a bias in the evidence. We ARE the 0.000etc001 chance! There could be unimaginable (or infinite) numbers of blank, barren, matterless universes out there, or universes without physics, universes unbounded by time, or whatever. Chances are, we'll never see them, much less enumerate them, and until then all the evidence we have to go by is this one freak occurrence. Hell, there's nothing to deny that we're in the only universe and it just got lucky. It's not impossible.
Fanatic-Templar
Whn I grow up, I want to be an applemaker!
I mean, there are apples, so there must be people who make apples, right?
Designed in California and made in Chinese sweatshops - lets all hail the god of apple.
You had read? What happened then?
One of those mind-numbing entities is, according to you, God. Where did he come from? Who made him? Is there a Godmaker?
My computer is an Asus, not DELL or IBM.
I call this type of thinking intelligence, yes.
If you could breed two Rolls-Royces and get a bunch of little scooters...oh never mind, that analogy doesn't work.
BUT if every time a piece of the plane hit the right place, and then kept that piece and recycled all the rest, sooner or later you'd make some progress. That is what evolution does. The losers die and the winners eat them.
@Tallyho
Designed in California and made in Chinese sweatshops - lets all hail the god of apple
image
/)^3^(\
@Swede
My computer is an Asus, not DELL or IBM
I've had an Asus - an X-58L.
But the Dells I've had have always been rock-solid & ultra-reliable; very upgradeable too (as long as the BIOS is up to date). Lenovos - formerly IBMs, especially Thinkpads - are ultra-reliable too (thus they're the only laptop of choice at NASA: especially in the ISS), but the only thing stopping me from getting one is the chip that's in the batteries of such: and the BIOS in Lenovos will prevent it from working with them if it's a generic battery without that chip. And Lenovo Thinkpad batteries - like Dell's - are expensive.
But Dell laptops don't have that electronic/financial impediment, thus one can buy generic but compatible batteries that are far cheaper, and will still work & charge just fine.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
