(In a multi-post rant on why and how all religion should be eradicated in discussion of a fundie atheist quote:)
Histories greatest minds have always known that it is us and them, and that for everyone's overall saftey and wellbeing, it is us that needs to be in control. They do not have the capability to sustain themselves in a civilized manner for any great period of time. Their minds are simply not capable of it. They will never simply ease into an efficient system, they will always put base survival first, conjuring up the supernatural as explainations for things that they find no time to explain. They need us to control them. However, no animal likes to be caged. So what did we do? We used force. We forced them to see that they needed our guiding hand. And when they did see that they would flourish under our guidance, they accepted us as their rulers, and went straight back to not caring. So it is throughout history.
The problem is this. We become complacent. We begin to trust that their fledgling minds are capable of taking care of themselves. Finally, we think, surely now they are advanced and educated enough to stay out of trouble. But no, some asshole always sneaks in, and turns them against us for his own selfish goals. The rest can be seen in every history book ever written. That is why the methods I propose seem to not work - no-one has ever actually tried it in it's entirety. Pre-emptively taking control of the world in order to usher in lasting global peace? Do not be fooled into thinking Hitler and his ilk are counter-examples. He is an example of what happens when they are out of control.
If I sincerely believed that education and prosperity alone were enough to save the world, I would be singing their praises. Granted, they are very useful, but they are not enough. The most powerful organisations in the world know that as well as I do.
85 comments
"ItBut no, some asshole always sneaks in, and turns them against us for his own selfish goal"
And you prove this well. If you're atheist, you give the rest a bad name. If Chrisian, you give them a bad name.
I already told Brigged that his views are not only naive but also evil and cannot be accomplished without establishing a complete dictatorship the likes of which would make even Orwellian systems look like bastions of freedom. Oh, and inb4 DOS's boringly predictable "This is why I hate every single atheist in the entire history of the universe from the moment they're born".
I repeat: How to give secular people and skeptics a bad name 101.
This one gets an a.
And I add: The Vulcans are never going to let us join the cool spaceship club if people keep acting this way. (Sorry...I was raised by Trekkies. It just can't be helped.)
this guy is such a cartoon villain
is he a nut, a nut pretending to be another nut, or just trolling? who knows?
whatever the case, his ideas are bad enough that they need to be addressed.
@Lady Renae Thank you!
Brigged, who says you are one of "us"? Maybe you are one of "them", who in your own words "need us to control them".
(Very scary words, indeed, I agree with agentCDE.)
Hitler saw himself as one of "us", just like you do.
If you need force, you're doing it wrong. These people are very easy to manipulate. It would have to move slowly and subtly, but infiltrating their ranks could at least afford us a measure of control over their insanity. Rule from the shadows with your back against the wall; you'll keep knives out of it better that way.
IP check confirmed Brigged and DOS are not one and the same. Also, if this was a Poe, it was the best Poe I've ever seen. The conviction and resonance here is downright palpable, and I've heard words similar to these come out of people's mouths before, so it's a little scarier for me than for most.
I agree with those who said it before... "They need us to control them." = scariest six words on this whole bloody site.
Additionally, what's up with all the double posts here? I've already cleaned up three of them, all from different people in different IP pools, so I know it isn't a regional issue. O.o
Either I'm reading this wrong, or the only thing wrong with this quote is the suggestion of the use of force. We're better than that, but the general display of assholes that get quoted here tells me that to sit back and do nothing except laugh at them will lead us to be consumed by them. It's not like this hasn't happened before. 1776 was a fight by deists against the church of England and the first amendment makes that clear. If people are spreading incorrect knowledge that cannot stand up to scrutiny then they need to be scrutinised. And if in the process they smite you on the left cheek, then smash them on the right (sorry to quote satanism there.. I don't believe in Satan).
Population density is our biggest threat. Religions compel people to have as many babies as possible to expand their religion. The earth is incapable of growing enough food for this. Quality of life is higher in countries which are predominantly atheist. I wouldn't like to live under a Nazi regime, and that's why my grandfather fought against it. We are blindly allowing Christianity and Islam to creep into our post-enlightenmentist culture and the good work of the pioneers is under threat. Feel free to quote me as a fundie atheist. I won't be the slightest bit embarrassed.
Mental pointless rant which does nothing but damage the credibility of this board. Well done, dickhead.
And lay off the use of the word "we". They're your personal delusions you are describing, no-one elses.
@Wozza: "And lay off the use of the word "we". They're your personal delusions you are describing, no-one elses."
It's the majestic plural ;-)
Briggeds ideas about the rabble needing the superior people to run their lives sounds a lot like the Leo Strauss version of neocons.
Also the christianist claim that without Jesus people will become murderers rapists homosexuals drug addicts etc.
There will always be lots of gullible people, and they will regularly be used by a highly competent sociopath to do his bidding. It just happens that in recent centuries the gullible people are programmed with religion.
"...and that for everyone's overall saftey and wellbeing, it is us that needs to be in control."
Unless you were a Pogo fan, your grammar disqualifies you. Tell you what though, you give it a try, and I'll try to kill you.
@Disappointed
Generally anyone pretentious enough to call themselves a 'free thinker' has about as many issues as any fundie does.
But anyway, if it is a sockpuppet of one of the typical boys they did an impressive job of covering their IP tracks.
Terms like "free-thinker" and "Bright" are really akin to homosexuals being called "gay", which meant happy. Calling homosexuals gay doesn't imply that heterosexuals are depressed or anything. Hell, Victor Stenger said that people who adhere to supernatural beliefs could be called "Supers"--and what's so bad about that?
@Papabear
You idiot.
FAITH AND REASON ARE POLAR OPPOSITES.
Some people NEED faith in order to function.
Eliminating that would just get a lot of suicidal people...
@DevilsChaplain
"Outside the box" is in it's own box often.
They follow their own self created Dogma.
Lady Renae
IP check confirmed Brigged and DOS are not one and the same. Also, if this was a Poe, it was the best Poe I've ever seen. The conviction and resonance here is downright palpable, and I've heard words similar to these come out of people's mouths before, so it's a little scarier for me than for most.
Unfortunately, that different IP addresses don't mean anything. I post from my home and from work, both of which have different IP addresses. Granted, I'm not saying that DOS and Briggid are the same people posting from different computers, as I've no evidence of that fact. I do find it interesting, however, that being total polar opposites, they never comment against each other, beyond DOS thanking Briggid for justifying his hatred of atheists.
First don't lump yourself together with the history's greatest minds or think you speak on their behalf, nor on atheist behalf.
Second might makes right mentality "because we know best", is the same authoritarian arrogance, the theist have. In essence by your own morality the theist position is just as justified, as your own.
Third there is no clear line of us and them. Almost every human is capable of reasoning, not just 'us'. Also changing one's views is never easy, no matter who it is.
If we are complacent, then let's simply not be and demonstrate why our positions are right in rational, evidence based discourse. That combined with education and prosperity, is the best answer to combat fundamentalism, not megalomaniac control fantasies or violence.
You don't save the world by setting it aflame. It's simply up to humanity as a whole wether our species lives or dies, isn't that the only fair solution?
Personally I think you're a theist POE, but you could just as easily be the real deal, an idiot atheist, with very twisted views.
There is only one proper way to fight against an irrational idea, such as religion: Through widespread criticism and education.
Silencing the opposition does nothing to help us. Silencing an idea does nothing to make that idea go away, it just drives it underground, and in fact, makes it more difficult to fight against it because no debate about it would be permitted.
Freedom of speech and freedom of beliefs is considered a valuable human right for a REASON.
While slavery itself is illegal, it's not illegal to be pro-slavery. But is it something we are really concerned about in the U.S.? Is there any chance the pro-slavery crowd will eventually overwhelm the anti-slavery crowd and bring slavery back? No, because through widespread criticism of an ignorant and horrible idea like slavery, most people understand WHY slavery is wrong and the idea is only held by a few fringe lunatics.
I have to say that Brigged is probably isn't a reverse-poe. Being an atheist just means you don't believe in God(s), it doesn't mean that you have to be moral, rational, and sane. If we try to say that Brigged somehow isn't a true atheist, it's no different from when Christians claim someone who shares their faith but disagrees with them on something else isn't really a true Christian.
That being said, I find Brigged's comments so despicable that I don't even know where to begin. Brigged is twisted and wrong in just about every possible way.
@Arcturus
Agreed.
I honestly believe that the world and our civilization would be better off if religion was taken out of the equation. However, I also agree that the use of force is a horrible suggestion. We are, as you reasonably state, better than that. The conversion must be done by education, enlightenment and free will. Sady, because of this, I suspect it will never happen. Huge percentages of the human population are perfectly content with the explanation "goddidit" and are happy to leave it at that. I'd like to think that we have outgrown the need for superstitions and supernatural explanations for natural phenomena, but sadly now I come to suspect that we never will. Does this make me an atheist fundamentalist? I don't think so, but if you quote me as one I see no reason to be embarassed by it.
Haven't you seen the Wrath of Khan, Brigged?
Also, don't let me forget:
image
And naturally if you made any "progress" in taking control you would reward yourself and your close associates for your work with more wealth and a better quality of life.
This is the same kind of rationale used by every ruling class or wannabe ruling class in history.
If this person really is an atheist, they are a Strawman Atheist. Real atheists are nothing like this. My personal belief is that, if a person is happy with their religion and not hurting anyone else, let them believe what they want to believe, so long as they don't try to convert me. I'm happy being an atheist.
Why is it that every time an atheist quote comes up, there are a dozen people who shout "POE?"
Look at Sam Harris. He has specifically stated that "religious tolerance is a mistake," among other things. I guarantee you that if he was a Christian and said the things he says about atheism that he says about religion, he'd be called a fundie and a prime example of how religion is dangerous. Instead, he's up there with Hitchens and Dawkins, and Dawkins even endorses him.
Why is it so hard to believe that if a grade-A asshole like Harris can be published in the mainstream, that there might be people even worse on the internet?
I will start by saying I am a christian, so if there where a plot to take over the world and push down religion I would indeed have a lot to cast.
In my life, I have been taught that science is not evil. Not all sermons should be heeded. And ultimately, as a Christian, I should above all else allow others to live their lives freely.
There are indeed those who demonise enlightenent. There are also (try to figure this one out) those who would reject knowledge of what they call "God's Creation" simply due to either outdated dogma, or simply personal ego.
However, one thing I am tired above all else is seeing ignorant people in the world who make absolutely zero effort to understand that people are individuals. Don't go pulling this whole "Herd of animals" crap on people simply because they beleive in something different.
If you find my beleif irrational, Cool. Lets talk about it. You can teach me about the world from your view, And I can teach you about my own. Will either person change their outlook? maybe. Maybe not. But no, I don't think I can support a world dictatorship simply to silence those you disagree with. It will bring harm to all involved.
Now, My grammar is bad. So if my post is unreadable, Essentially what I am saying is "This guy can take his global control plan and shove it. This is not how we learn."
@ Brigged
Us? Them? Fucking arrogant, elitist cocksucker! oooo, I'm so smart, I'm so special, 'cuz I was born with a few percent more braincells... To the rest of the universe you are just another ant with mandibles 0.1 millimeters larger than most other ants in a colony of 7,000,000,000 individuals, you moronic git.
@ Watergirl909
I've got to question the logic of this. This gives the Freepers and Ruptured Retards ammo. We shouldn't draw more attention to this, but ignore it so that they don't see it.
Pfft, such a silly thing to say. Ever heard of something called "integrity"? How about "double standards"? Why do you care what freepers or RR people think? If they see this sociopath's post, then they will also see how such mentality is treated by others here who reply to it.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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