Master Samwise #fundie disqus.com

"The idea anyone "desires" hell is absurd."

Is it? How many people choose to be addicted to opiods or commit suicide? People choose evil things all the time. I mean, just think of what kind of mental gymnastics it took for someone on the Einsatzgruppens. People choose evil; whether they rationalize it against all reason as being good is another thing.

"it basically DEMANDS a Christian perspective which if the person reading refuses to give, assumes a desire for hell."

On the contrary, pagan philosophers and basic logic can deduce that punishment for evil in an next life is not only perfectly rational, but perfectly just. It demands a perspective that accepts that all evils deeds do not go unpunished. While that has more fullness in Christianity, it is not a novel idea. People who desire evil are consciously refusing the good of human excellence. Plato and Aristotle would argue that this constitutes a need for some sort of justice. Basically, if even the pagans can deduce by reason that otherworldly punishment for refusing the good, then why do you say that you need a Christian perspective?

"Then you got all bent out of shape because you think, and rightly too, that I'm equating an "objective moral order" with a Christian based one..."

Hm, you want me to be less condescending but saw stuff like this? I am incredulous. My reply to your original comment was a commentary on a seeming inability to grasp how Christians arrive at the position they do i.e. objective moral order. And then you tried to make the conversation about how an objective moral order can exist without God....when I said that one can APPREHEND that such an order exists without mentioning God. I can see how you could be confused as the finer mechanics of metaphysics seems to be lost on you. If they were not, you would have seen the obvious distinction between existence and apprehension; the former deals with whether an objective moral order can have its being without God and the latter is whether WE can APPREHEND such an order without appealing to a divine authority. One is a matter of ontology and metaphysics and the other is a matter of epistemology.

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Confused?

So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!

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